Boris - The Prime Minister

First thoughts on PMBoris, will he make a difference?


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You don't actually know anything, you surmise and conject . Quite embarrassing yourself.

You can be quite fair minded though if it's not actually Boris (Grrr) that you're obsessed with







I won't argue with you there although the Irony meter has gone off the scale.

I am going by what Cummings has said specifically today about Bozo not appearing in front of AN during The 2019 GE.

Where, IMHO, he would have got a roasting.

Something I commented about at the time. A strange thing for Cummings to make up if untrue.
 
You don't actually know anything, you surmise and conject . Quite embarrassing yourself.

You can be quite fair minded though if it's not actually Boris (Grrr) that you're obsessed with







I won't argue with you there although the Irony meter has gone off the scale.

 

Truxx

LE
The man's a weasel, as witnessed by the whole "Barnard Castle to test my eyesight" incident - apparently convinced that he's the exception, he knows best, he's the smartest bloke in the room.

But that doesn't mean he's wrong in this particular case, particularly as he's able to point to the public statements of Hancock, the text messages and whiteboard pictures from within No.10, and the documents from COBR; and able to generate a timeline which supports his assertions.

He would be a hypocrite if he didn't put the boot in over the concept of "denying failure and avoiding responsibility" - the first time I heard of him was several years back; reading his blog post about being Gove's SPAD at Education, and the frustrations and perverse incentives in effect when dealing with the worse-performing senior civil servants. Again, I haven't got the experience to declare that he's correct (or whether he's missing the point somewhat); but he makes a strong argument, explaining it clearly..

The Hollow Men (Part I)
The Hollow Men (Part II)
His replies to commentary on the articles

(If you haven't got the time to read the full articles, someone summarised it here)
My own No10 experience is actually how little those there have a clue what is going on out where the cabbages grow.

I have come out of an int heavy meeting, then senior folks seeing some wibble on Sky that seems to contradict what they just heard then calling the spooks back in to query why they were wrong...
 
My own No10 experience is actually how little those there have a clue what is going on out where the cabbages grow.
That was Cummings' point about the whole thing in the Hollow Men (Part II) article; UK Government tends to select and promote the wrong people, and copes badly with complexity.

However, I think he rather overstates the contrasting ability of science and industry to cope with complexity :
A. some places do (and thrive)​
B. some don't (and somehow survive)​
C. some don't (and fail / disappear)​
I've seen problems arise when people from Group B believe they're from Group A, rather than fortunate not to be in Group C. "We've survived (by luck more than judgement) therefore I must be awesome! You must listen to ME!". You know, the type that writes self-help books. Or from Group C, but "it was just bad timing, or we'd have been a stunning success".

Which makes me wonder why you're defending senior politicians and civil servants, and suggesting that "it wasn't their fault" / "they did well, considering" / "they couldn't have foreseen". IMHO no, no, and they could.
 

Truxx

LE
That was Cummings' point about the whole thing in the Hollow Men (Part II) article; UK Government tends to select and promote the wrong people, and copes badly with complexity.

However, I think he rather overstates the contrasting ability of science and industry to cope with complexity :
A. some places do (and thrive)​
B. some don't (and somehow survive)​
C. some don't (and fail / disappear)​
I've seen problems arise when people from Group B believe they're from Group A, rather than fortunate not to be in Group C. "We've survived (by luck more than judgement) therefore I must be awesome! You must listen to ME!". You know, the type that writes self-help books. Or from Group C, but "it was just bad timing, or we'd have been a stunning success".

Which makes me wonder why you're defending senior politicians and civil servants, and suggesting that "it wasn't their fault" / "they did well, considering" / "they couldn't have foreseen". IMHO no, no, and they could.
I know a number of minions advising ministers, and therefore government.

I am defending them because I am confident that every one of them tried to do the best that they could under the circumstances.

Just as you would have done had you been in the mix.

There are no "faults", just decisions made with the best intention and based on tiny (at the start) amounts of data and lots of conflicting imperatives.

Interesting observation made to me a long time ago by son in law (treasury rep in the Cabinet Office) who was not a Dom fan, describing him as someone who had not realised that when God had given him two ears but only one mouth he (other God genders available) was dropping a strong hint that they should be used in the same ratio
 
Goodness me.

The Government is clear that the proper place for criminal investigations and prosecutions relating to electoral law is with the police and the Crown Prosecution Service (and the Public Prosecution Service in Northern Ireland) who are experts in this domain.

In recent years, the Electoral Commission has sought to develop the capability to bring criminal offences before the courts. This has never been agreed by the Government or Parliament. Having the Electoral Commission step into this space would risk wasting public money as well as present potential conflicts of interest for a body responsible for providing advice and guidance on electoral law to initiate proceedings which might depend on the very advice that was given.

We will therefore maintain the status quo by providing clarity in law that the Electoral Commission should not bring criminal prosecutions in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. This measure will not apply in Scotland where there is already a single prosecutorial body. We are committed instead to supporting the existing independent and impartial police forces, prosecution services and courts as necessary to enforce electoral regulation fairly and effectively.

I mean, what possible reason could a Government have for this sort of efficiency?

I'm sure the government supports the independent and impartial police (except when it's neccessary for all the phones to update and delete material from the Home Secretary), the prosecution service (who they appoint) and courts (who it is in their 2019 manifesto at p48 “After Brexit we also need to look at the broader aspects of our constitution: the relationship between the government, parliament and the courts”).

Maybe Lord Geit could oversee? I mean he's the Independent Adviser on Ministers' Interest (appointed by the Prime Minister).

Wonder what the final form is....?

giphy.gif
 

Truxx

LE
Goodness me.



I mean, what possible reason could a Government have for this sort of efficiency?

I'm sure the government supports the independent and impartial police (except when it's neccessary for all the phones to update and delete material from the Home Secretary), the prosecution service (who they appoint) and courts (who it is in their 2019 manifesto at p48 “After Brexit we also need to look at the broader aspects of our constitution: the relationship between the government, parliament and the courts”).

Maybe Lord Geit could oversee? I mean he's the Independent Adviser on Ministers' Interest (appointed by the Prime Minister).

Wonder what the final form is....?

giphy.gif
Friday already?

Where does a week go.....
 
There are no "faults", just decisions made with the best intention and based on tiny (at the start) amounts of data and lots of conflicting imperatives

Which I mostly believe and agree with; my beef is with those at the top setting up the conflicting imperatives, and deciding how to resolve them - e.g. "2% saving in current Financial Year" against "but we need to turn over / restock / fill up strategic stockpiles".

Hence my comments about Ministers / Senior Civil Servants. If they made a decision e.g. "there is no money, spend what we have on the certainties and hope the pandemic doesn't happen this year", then fine - but don't then lie about being the best-prepared country in Europe, had PPE under control, there were no shortages, etc, etc.

Yes, that's how politicians behave, I understand. But it doesn't mean we should excuse it, just because we agree with their Party's manifesto.
 
......

Yes, that's how politicians behave, I understand. But it doesn't mean we should excuse it, just because we agree with their Party's manifesto.

I only marked funny, because as I have been repeatedly told manifesto are not worth the paper they are written on, are not binding, or not..... whatever.

Never mind the PM stood up and said he delivered on promises in our manifesto at the despatch box (and I quoted Hansard).

On this thread, you may as well stick you dick out the window and try and **** the night as uphold minor conventions in UK politics such as 'most of us understand manifestos as part of a social contract'.
 
You show me, in the CYGNUS recommendations, the requirement to "stockpile PPE". The findings talk about "emergency responders" not everyone down to the tea lady.

And I have already pointed out the "protocols in place for infection control"

Even if it were implicit that everyone (including the tea lady) should all be in NBC State 1 (it isnt), the procurement, storage and subsequent distribution of such stocks is (as is laid down on the front page of their website) the responsibility of NHS Supply. Go read it.

Not the Government. Not even the department of state.
The full report has not been released, as I suspect you know.

Can't imagine why...
 
It's a joke but not a funny one, then you have the border "farce" ferrying thousands of illegal migrants into the country etc.

I'm just stating facts here - do your own thinking on this.
Ferrying in thousands is a "fact", eh?
 

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