Boris - The Prime Minister

[Themanwho]

It seems that the French seem to be putting a spanner in the works and unless we cave in on the fishing quotas and they get what they want, the whole thing could collapse.

I have to say that perhaps the response should be that unless they agree our position on quotas, we’re walking away.

I voted remain. That doesn’t mean I’m prepared to accept a bad deal for the UK. We are now way past the vote. This is about our future and the future of our children etc.

If the deal does fall through, it’s important that we as a nation pull together to ensure we do get the UK up and running and working to prosper despite the EU!

I must say, that's rather an abrupt volte face. Has Stalin's Russia just been invaded by the Hun?

 

[Oyibo]

Snipped

I voted remain. That doesn’t mean I’m prepared to accept a bad deal for the UK.

What changed your mind?

 

[Moderator]

You really need to re-examine your thoughts on politics. A good way to start would be to inject some reality into them of what people are doing rather than apparently dreaming up stories and trying to pass them off as actual current affairs.

His thoughts on politics are more flip flop than a beach shop full of flip flops.

 

[rgjbloke]

I must say, that's rather an abrupt volte face. Has Stalin's Russia just been invaded by the Hun?

Not at all. I’ve always accepted the decision of the country. Like everybody I suspect, there was a period of time to reflect on what was a surprise result and to take stock of the fact that we had made the decision to leave and what the hell would happen next.

All that said, after that period of reflection, there was never any doubt in my mind that we were now leaving. I’m very keen that we get a deal but as far as I’m concerned, there are lines in the sand that we can’t cross.

I’m not interested in the EU trying to stitch us up which seems to be what the French are doing now. They aren’t going to do us any favours if they can avoid it and we have to be prepared to stick out for what we want out of the deal.

There are of course compromises to be made but that’s a two sided thing. There are also matters that are about sovereignty. I’m not interested in being forced by the EU to comply with any of their rules unless it entirely suits us to do so and we enter into agreements on a willing and voluntary basis because we will prosper from them.

Fishing rights are about sovereignty because they want to have access to our waters. It’s very simple. It’s our bit of the sea so we decide who can come and fish in it and what they can catch and how much of it they can catch.

I’m also very interested in seeing government sponsored investment in industry take place in the UK to get the economy rocking for us all. That doesn’t mean that the government actually pays for it but rather that they create the conditions for it to happen.

One of the problems in the past has been that EU rules largely seem to prevent that. A good example is the car industry. It will never be the mammoth industry that it was in the past but I think there is scope to do something.

Under EU rules though, that’s a problem and I think it’s a bit more than a bit of a cheek that the French and particularly the Germans sell huge amounts of cars in the UK and the EU of which both of those nations are leading players make it so difficult for us to look at doing anything that might need a starting leg up from the state.

We’re at where we’re at. We need that to now work for all of us and if necessary in spite of the EU!

 

[FourZeroCharlie]

Not at all. I’ve always accepted the decision of the country. Like everybody I suspect, there was a period of time to reflect on what was a surprise result and to take stock of the fact that we had made the decision to leave and what the hell would happen next.

All that said, after that period of reflection, there was never any doubt in my mind that we were now leaving. I’m very keen that we get a deal but as far as I’m concerned, there are lines in the sand that we can’t cross.

I’m not interested in the EU trying to stitch us up which seems to be what the French are doing now. They aren’t going to do us any favours if they can avoid it and we have to be prepared to stick out for what we want out of the deal.

There are of course compromises to be made but that’s a two sided thing. There are also matters that are about sovereignty. I’m not interested in being forced by the EU to comply with any of their rules unless it entirely suits us to do so and we enter into agreements on a willing and voluntary basis because we will prosper from them.

Fishing rights are about sovereignty because they want to have access to our waters. It’s very simple. It’s our bit of the sea so we decide who can come and fish in it and what they can catch and how much of it they can catch.

I’m also very interested in seeing government sponsored investment in industry take place in the UK to get the economy rocking for us all. That doesn’t mean that the government actually pays for it but rather that they create the conditions for it to happen.

One of the problems in the past has been that EU rules largely seem to prevent that. A good example is the car industry. It will never be the mammoth industry that it was in the past but I think there is scope to do something.

Under EU rules though, that’s a problem and I think it’s a bit more than a bit of a cheek that the French and particularly the Germans sell huge amounts of cars in the UK and the EU of which both of those nations are leading players make it so difficult for us to look at doing anything that might need a starting leg up from the state.

We’re at where we’re at. We need that to now work for all of us and if necessary in spite of the EU!

That's an awful lot of words to say, 'I changed my mind'.

 

[Emcon Ecomcon]

What an absolute load of pish and tosh! Boris the left winger and Starmer and Blair closet revolutionaries?!

You really need to re-examine your thoughts on politics. A good way to start would be to inject some reality into them of what people are doing rather than apparently dreaming up stories and trying to pass them off as actual current affairs.

Starmer was a Trotskyist (ask Peter Hitchens).
Blair was a Trotskyist (ask Peter Hitchens).

P.S.
Have a read up on Gramsci.

P.P.S
Little-known fact, but in the late 1980s Keir Starmer was on the editorial board of Socialist Alternatives magazine, a small-circulation Trotskyist-linked red/green paper.

 

[exbluejob]

One of the problems in the past has been that EU rules largely seem to prevent that. A good example is the car industry. It will never be the mammoth industry that it was in the past but I think there is scope to do something.

Car manufacture in the past was mammoth compared to now???

We've never had it so good!

 

[rgjbloke]

Starmer was a Trotskyist (ask Peter Hitchens).
Blair was a Trotskyist (ask Peter Hitchens).

P.S.
Have a read up on Gramsci.

P.P.S
Little-known fact, but in the late 1980s Keir Starmer was on the editorial board of Socialist Alternatives magazine, a small-circulation Trotskyist-linked red/green paper.

People change as they go along and their views change accordingly. I personally know dozens of people who when they were young were socialist firebrands and now sit in their armchairs puffing on their pipes and laughing about those days.

Blair was certainly the most right wing Labour leader since the war in my view. Most of those on the left only accepted him because everybody was utterly sick of 18 years of continuous Tory government.

Starmer despite his past affiliations with leftist organisations has also moved to the right of the party although not as far as Blair did.

These people aren’t Trotskyist in any sense of the word except in your imagination.

And as for calling Boris Johnson a lefty, you either have a weird sense of political direction or you’re making it up as you go along!

 

[HCL]

Boris may yet end up being a lucky general - but that will depend first and foremost on the economy and his handling of it. By 2024, COVID will almost certainly be water under the bridge, the economy certainly won't....

I think most of us would have preferred to serve under a lucky average general than an unlucky brilliant general.

 

[HCL]

Oh, I have thought it through.

I asked who will buy all the fish if we catch it all?

No answers beyond LOOK A BADGER

Umm.... If there's a glut of fish then the price drops, making it more affordable; plus the frozen food processing companies. Think that's Supply & Demand 101.

 

[Emcon Ecomcon]

People change as they go along and their views change accordingly. I personally know dozens of people who when they were young were socialist firebrands and now sit in their armchairs puffing on their pipes and laughing about those days.

Blair was certainly the most right wing Labour leader since the war in my view. Most of those on the left only accepted him because everybody was utterly sick of 18 years of continuous Tory government.

Starmer despite his past affiliations with leftist organisations has also moved to the right of the party although not as far as Blair did.

These people aren’t Trotskyist in any sense of the word except in your imagination.

And as for calling Boris Johnson a lefty, you either have a weird sense of political direction or you’re making it up as you go along

Blair wrecked this country and the 10 years of Tory rule, has done the square root of FA, to overturn what he did to this country at a social and cultural level. I would also add, that the ideas of Gramsci, don't really focus on narrow economic arguments and why you and others, are so deluded to believe a tory in the treasury matters at all, or the media created narratives of individual people. The hegemony is everything and the long march..... The only difference between Corbyn and Blair, was Tony could be bought and Jezza wanted to interfere with the rich getting richer and why the progressive media had such a dislike of corbynism.

Boris is a progressive and I would suggest you go and look at his record as mayor of london.

 

[HCL]

Government policy, deal or no deal, here are the rules from Jan1st & make sure your business is ready if you import & export to the EU.....Oh, and brush up on the regulations for employing foreign nationals Recruiting people from outside the UK from 1 January 2021 - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

Deals nice if there's a decent one on offer, if not.........it looks like the Government is prepared for that

I don't believe any deal is possible because Boris must follow through on returning full sovereignty and that means any concessions on standards, jurisdiction etcetera will seized upon as betrayal and failure, leading to a resumption of the internal civil war in the Tory party. These negotiations are nothing a cliched throw smoke, left flank exercise.

 

[HCL]

Any Judgement is not restricted to a year as the top man. But also includes his time as London Mayor and I'm afraid the green stuff was evident during his Mayoral terms, as was his leftward attitudes, including wanting an amnesty for illegal migrants and he wants to be liked and I sense he sees 2021 as the great green reset and by 2022, the wider party will start to see the light and it will be too late.

Starmer is far more dangerous than Corbyn, just as Blair was far more dangerous than Benn..... Because closet revolutionaries like Blair/Starmer are able to force change on an unsuspecting public, whereas the overt revolutionary, can be tolerated or opposed, but would struggle to change the country at a fundamental level.

I can see your points but cannot concede all of them, in particular the amnesty for illegals at the time when Boris called for it. It was the right call, maybe for the wrong reasons but if it had been effected then immigration controls could have been toughened up and a swifter, simpler deportation scheme brought in against future illegals; plus a more accurate/truer count of immigrants would have existed which would have been like a cattle prod up the arrse of the collective indigenous population but hey, mustn't scare the peasants.

 

[wetsmonkey]

What changed your mind?

That would be my position as well.

 

[Daz]

I don't believe any deal is possible because Boris must follow through on returning full sovereignty and that means any concessions on standards, jurisdiction etcetera will seized upon as betrayal and failure, leading to a resumption of the internal civil war in the Tory party. These negotiations are nothing a cliched throw smoke, left flank exercise.

It matters not if there's a deal done or not, the rules will remain the same for import and exports & migration according to HMG and their endless communications to businesses (Yet another letter came though as a reminder this week). Given that, I'd say HMG have already decided that the so called "Hard Brexit" is the way forward.

 

[Snowy.]

That Barnier twat was supposed to sod off back to Brussels this morning...

What the hell is he still doing here?.

 

[exbluejob]

That Barnier twat was supposed to sod off back to Brussels this morning...

What the hell is he still doing here?.

Fish Friday.

 

[Bravo_Bravo]

Umm.... If there's a glut of fish then the price drops, making it more affordable; plus the frozen food processing companies. Think that's Supply & Demand 101.

Have you heard of the French?

 

[Wightsparker]

That Barnier twat was supposed to sod off back to Brussels this morning...

What the hell is he still doing here?.

Taking French leave?

 

[LeoRoverman]

Car manufacture in the past was mammoth compared to now???
View attachment 526078
View attachment 526079

We've never had it so good!

I think the point is that the majority is not owned by us. Vauxhall has been American owned as is Ford, the Semantics that they are British Branches was largely for tax purposes not for any patriotic reason. Every single manufacturer that wound up in BLMC as wholly British has gone and one cannot say that that industrial action was the only factor. After all Roots and fords have had their clashes, but ultimately the unions lost those because of the greater interest. Rolls and Bentley cars are largely German product now JLR largely Indian. I think the demise of Rover was by design not just poor product and I think the proof lies in the BMW demand under Brown's chancellorship we deal purely in the Euro. Credit to Brown that we don't much as dislike his politics..