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Boris - The Prime Minister

First thoughts on PMBoris, will he make a difference?


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Time to let people take their own decision on risk - and indeed on the risk from long term damage from Covid 19.

I can chose whether to go on public transport, use my car or stay at home; I can chose whether to walk into a pub or supermarket or not depending on the precautions it is taking.

My choice and my risk...

Wordsmith

Problem is stupid people are happy to take that risk themselves but also unhappy about being told they can't go and see their parents/grandparents/vulnerable people as a result. There's a lot of arrogance among the low risk groups that the vulnerable should be thrown under a bus so they can do what they like. The young and healthy have switched to looking at people likely to be badly affected by covid as acceptable collateral damage rather than human beings who might actually want to stay alive a bit longer. My 88 year old granddad is sprightly and not even on any medication but I dare say covid would royally screw him over if he were to catch it
 
Can I recommend reading what you post first.

I did read it, you should try it also

In a June paper5, he and his team analysed clinical details for 125 people in the United Kingdom with COVID-19 who had neurological or psychiatric effects. Of these, 62% had experienced damage to the brain’s blood supply, such as strokes and haemorrhages, and 31% had altered mental states, such as confusion or prolonged unconsciousness — sometimes accompanied by encephalitis, the swelling of brain tissue. Ten people who had altered mental states developed psychosis.

Covid is not the same as SARS or MERS.

SARS and MERS have been analysed to death, Covid is still ongoing and has not been analysed to death.

A comparison can made when Covid has been neutralised by whatever means, not in the middle of an ongoing pandemic.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Problem is stupid people are happy to take that risk themselves but also unhappy about being told they can't go and see their parents/grandparents/vulnerable people as a result. There's a lot of arrogance among the low risk groups that the vulnerable should be thrown under a bus so they can do what they like. The young and healthy have switched to looking at people likely to be badly affected by covid as acceptable collateral damage rather than human beings who might actually want to stay alive a bit longer. My 88 year old granddad is sprightly and not even on any medication but I dare say covid would royally screw him over if he were to catch it

I know. I have a mother of nearly 90. My sister and I shield her as best we can, while making sure she maintains as normal a social life as she can. My mother is aware that Covid will probably finish her off if she gets it but, providing my sister and I manage the risk, she's happy with the things we allow her to do.

Wordsmith
 
Then why did you cite the link to the paper in your earlier post?

Wordsmith

Right at the top of the page, perhaps you missed it

NEWS FEATURE
15 SEPTEMBER 2020
How COVID-19 can damage the brain
Some people who become ill with the coronavirus develop neurological symptoms. Scientists are struggling to understand why.

.

Perhaps you should fire off a letter to Nature telling them you don't agree with them.
 
I know. I have a mother of nearly 90. My sister and I shield her as best we can, while making sure she maintains as normal a social life as she can. My mother is aware that Covid will probably finish her off if she gets it but, providing my sister and I manage the risk, she's happy with the things we allow her to do.

Wordsmith
I'm quite amazed my old Dad has not succumbed. 90 years old, Alzheimers ( no concept of social distancing or face masks) four carers coming in daily (they visit several other's during their rounds) plus the neighbour (fetches and carries the grandchild to and from school) and the bloke delivering his food every week.
It's probably the red wine and whisky - often at the same time.
 

Truxx

LE
I know. I have a mother of nearly 90. My sister and I shield her as best we can, while making sure she maintains as normal a social life as she can. My mother is aware that Covid will probably finish her off if she gets it but, providing my sister and I manage the risk, she's happy with the things we allow her to do.

Wordsmith
Not necessarily. A chum of mines mum is 92, in a local care home, has tested positive and yet is completely without symptoms.

Ok she is mad as a fish, but she was that already.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
I'm quite amazed my old Dad has not succumbed. 90 years old, Alzheimers ( no concept of social distancing or face masks) four carers coming in daily (they visit several other's during their rounds) plus the neighbour (fetches and carries the grandchild to and from school) and the bloke delivering his food every week.
It's probably the red wine and whisky - often at the same time.

My mother is in a block of retirement flats - they've taken their own decisions on risk. So my sister (who lives a lot closer than I do, does my mother's shopping, day to day stuff, etc). I come down twice a month to take her out for a pub lunch - which she likes. But only to a pub that is very careful about risk. My mother only goes out a couple of days a fortnight - and to areas that pose a low risk.

Within the block, they've decided the guidelines are bollox. So half a dozen of them who don't go out a lot regularly meet in my mother's flat - but stay several feet apart. That's six elderly households together in one room - but the risk is minimal and they accept it. Within the block, they try not to meet strangers and to ask visitors minimise risk . So, for example, I use hand sanitiser, never use the lift but walk up the stairs and so on.

It ain't BoJo's model, but I'd say they're doing a decent job of keeping their personal risk low.

Wordsmith
 
It is very early days and the long term effects of Covid19 in the young and healthy are still emerging. It does look like many will suffer long term and possibly permanent health problems.

I know of two people, both young and healthy, who had it back in March/April. Their symptoms were reasonably mild, and they were back at work after a couple of weeks. However, they are both still experiencing health issues, that include; headaches, chest pains, elevated heart rate, tinnitus.

I have my own views on lockdown etc, but this is one issue where I would not wish to be a politician.
 
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See figures in my other post - boy racers in cars will probably injure/kill as many as the long term health damage from Covid 19. There are also a series of academic papers showing the increased non-Covid 19 deaths from other factors such as lack of hospital treatment or long term unemployment from a reduced economy.

There is risk whatever you do. You cannot focus on the Covid 19 risk to the exclusion of all others.

Wordsmith

Don't worry I'm sure the lobster is on the case of writing academic papers
 
It is very early days and the long term effects of Covid19 in the young and healthy are still emerging. It does look like many will suffer long term and possibly permanent health problems.

I know of two people, both young and healthy, who had it back in March/April. Their symptoms were reasonably mild, and they were back at work after a couple of weeks. However, they are both still experiencing health issues, that include; headaches, chest pains, elevated heart rate, tinnitus.

I have my own views on lockdown etc, but this is one issue where I would not wish to be a politician.

I'm sure I had a mild case, I didn't lose my sense of smell and taste, but it did change and has taken about seven months to go back to normal

I thought I had normal flu at the time, but then the symptoms of Covid kept being added to and made me reassess what it was
 
I'm sure I had a mild case, I didn't lose my sense of smell and taste, but it did change and has taken about seven months to go back to normal

I thought I had normal flu at the time, but then the symptoms of Covid kept being added to and made me reassess what it was

Best wishes. I also know two separate individuals who are convinced that they had back in early January. AFAIK, the Govt are still maintaining that there were no cases in the UK this early.
 
Uh - Huh






You keep saying this and totally ignore the heart, lungs and brain damage issue. Whilst the risk of death might be much reduced, we still don't know what the long term consequences are.
Madrid isn't a country, Magellan.
 
Best wishes. I also know two separate individuals who are convinced that they had back in early January. AFAIK, the Govt are still maintaining that there were no cases in the UK this early.

But they were in Europe before Christmas, so it would be strange if the virus refused to travel with people who came across to the UK
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
See figures in my other post - boy racers in cars will probably injure/kill as many as the long term health damage from Covid 19. There are also a series of academic papers showing the increased non-Covid 19 deaths from other factors such as lack of hospital treatment or long term unemployment from a reduced economy.

There is risk whatever you do. You cannot focus on the Covid 19 risk to the exclusion of all others.

Wordsmith


the boy racer is only likely to kill himself and maybe a couple of others . The average RTC involves a single vehicle which remains on all 4 wheels. Bad RTC's (and I've been to a few) obviously involve more people, and have an impact on transport, local hospitals etc

A foolish person with Covid 19 can impact many, many people


 
I grant you that he's been hit by unprecedented problems for a modem prime minister - the only parallel I can think of being the Spanish flue of 1918/19. And the medical advice he's been given is clerkly inconsistent. Yet some things are clear:
  • The disease is most lethal if you are over 70; below that the risk is much reduced and is minimal for younger people
  • The three "C's" apply; Crowds, Confined Spaces and Conversation - the risk increases the more "C's" apply to your current situation
  • The risk of transmission is highest in area of high population density - cities. It's significant reduced in loosely populated areas.
  • Different lockdown regimes are not having much impact on the death rate - well observed loose lockdown regimes are as effective as less policed, tighter lock down regimes.
  • We can learn from countries that are 2 months ahead of us on the Covid 19 curve. We get a preview of future events that will hit the UK two months later.
Given the above, it would not be difficult to a construct a course of action that should remain unchanged for a minimum of three months.

As to the La Sturgeons of this world - Boris neds to say loud and clear that at the end of the crisis, the Office of National Statistics will conduct an independent investigation at the end of this crisis, identifying the respective death rates per capita in England, Scotland, Wales and Norther Ireland. with the model published, along with the input data so it is available for independent scrutiny.

If Sturgeon wants to conduct her own policy, then she should be held accountable for its effects - as should BoJo for his.

BoJo's first problem is inconsistency - frequent changes of direction, giving the impression of indecision. His second problem is is failure to consult parliament before each change of course - the need to explain his decisions in debate might have removed the worst of the u-turns.

BoJo has got a lot of other things right, but Covid 19 has not been his finest hour.

Wordsmith
All reasonable points. Of course the problem arises that what is innocuous to youngsters is not to the elderly, either way it means the elderly would be penalised and that means the care homes, in part. Fact is that care provision in care homes is not NHS specific and the inmates pay for it.
Second factor is that the reporting Is not consistent and it follows that the more tests that are done the higher the detection rates. I asked for a test at my surgery and was told that as I didn’t have the symptoms I couldn’t qualify. But that does not mean I can’t transmit. But this is NHS led!
Testing in itself I think is problematic. Given the scuttlebutt of unreliability in some testing systems, one would have thought that the scientific community, by whom we are led would have verified the systems. So it seems that charlatans have Carte Blanche.
Lastly if Johnson is still suffering the effects of Covid, surely the system provides for the Chancellor as no 2 to take over his post, but it does not mean that Johnson CAN control All these factors. I certainly have no faith that Labour or the Lib Dem’s could do better in these times.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
All reasonable points. Of course the problem arises that what is innocuous to youngsters is not to the elderly, either way it means the elderly would be penalised and that means the care homes, in part. Fact is that care provision in care homes is not NHS specific and the inmates pay for it.

Yeah - I know. My father, who had severe senile dementia, ended his days in a care home. But people in care homes can be protected. Access is tightly controlled - you have to be buzzed in by a member of staff. Providing staff are tested daily and not allowed to work in multiple care homes and visitors are restricted , the death rate in care and nursing homes could be kept low.

Second factor is that the reporting Is not consistent and it follows that the more tests that are done the higher the detection rates. I asked for a test at my surgery and was told that as I didn’t have the symptoms I couldn’t qualify. But that does not mean I can’t transmit. But this is NHS led!

This annoys me - they never report the number of positive tests as a percentage. Just reporting the numbers themselves without any context is meaningless.

Testing in itself I think is problematic. Given the scuttlebutt of unreliability in some testing systems, one would have thought that the scientific community, by whom we are led would have verified the systems. So it seems that charlatans have Carte Blanche.

A lot of this seemed to be ministerial panic. Having announced unrealistic goals to ramp up testing, they then had to let the charlatans in as part of a futile attempt to hit those unrealistic goals. Soundbite politics from some people who'd struggle to run a bath, let alone a nationwide testing program.

Lastly if Johnson is still suffering the effects of Covid, surely the system provides for the Chancellor as no 2 to take over his post, but it does not mean that Johnson CAN control All these factors. I certainly have no faith that Labour or the Lib Dem’s could do better in these times.

I don't think Johnson is suffering from the after effects. I think he's good at some things and bad at others. Covid 19 is something he's bad at.

Wordsmith
 

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