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Boris - The Prime Minister

First thoughts on PMBoris, will he make a difference?


  • Total voters
    637

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
BoJo, as I predicted some time back, is steadily getting in more of a tangle over Covid 19. Part of the problem is he 'doesn't do detail', part of the problem is that there is no medical consensus on the way forward, and part of the problem is he's trying to be all things to all people; you can't both keep the economy going and minimise Covid 19 deaths - the price of a functional economy is more Covid 19 deaths. He needs to level with people on that.

As I've said before, BoJo needs to take a common sense approach, work out a path that is a compromise between getting the economy back on track and keeping Covid 19 deaths down - and stick to it. He keeps making up policy on the hoof, which is now seriously pi$$ing off significant parts of the Tory party.

He needs to:
  1. Come up with simple and easily understandable rules - not the present fuster cluck
  2. Get parliamentary support
  3. Roll out the rules and stick to them through thick and thin over the winter - baring a major change in the nature of the virus. Don't get blown off course by adverse and ill informed media comment.
  4. Use common sense in policing the rules; don't punish minor, unintentional violations. Imprison deliberate and serious breaches of the rules; sweatshop owners, rave organisers and so on.
BoJo is rapidly running out of goodwill in his own party, many of whom have their heads in their hands over the mess the Tory Covid 19 management has degenerated into.

Wordsmith
 
Here is what I advocated could be done. I think you must have accidentally on purpose missed it



Which brings me nicely onto this Common Sense Policy that Johnson should adopt. A Common Sense Policy is useless when there is 1000's, perhaps 10's of 1000's up and down the Country who do not possess common sense because they are speshul and it is their Yuman Rite to do whatever they want.
What I think BJ is trying to do is address this issue by allowing their stupidity to be shown as what it is.
I hope he wins.
 

Chimp

ADC
What I think BJ is trying to do is address this issue by allowing their stupidity to be shown as what it is.
I hope he wins.
I am trying to understand your perspective. Can you explain:
their stupidity to be shown as what it is​
wins - as in the PM winning and what winning looks like?​
 
BoJo, as I predicted some time back, is steadily getting in more of a tangle over Covid 19. Part of the problem is he 'doesn't do detail', part of the problem is that there is no medical consensus on the way forward, and part of the problem is he's trying to be all things to all people; you can't both keep the economy going and minimise Covid 19 deaths - the price of a functional economy is more Covid 19 deaths. He needs to level with people on that.

As I've said before, BoJo needs to take a common sense approach, work out a path that is a compromise between getting the economy back on track and keeping Covid 19 deaths down - and stick to it. He keeps making up policy on the hoof, which is now seriously pi$$ing off significant parts of the Tory party.

He needs to:
  1. Come up with simple and easily understandable rules - not the present fuster cluck
  2. Get parliamentary support
  3. Roll out the rules and stick to them through thick and thin over the winter - baring a major change in the nature of the virus. Don't get blown off course by adverse and ill informed media comment.
  4. Use common sense in policing the rules; don't punish minor, unintentional violations. Imprison deliberate and serious breaches of the rules; sweatshop owners, rave organisers and so on.
BoJo is rapidly running out of goodwill in his own party, many of whom have their heads in their hands over the mess the Tory Covid 19 management has degenerated into.

Wordsmith
Have to disagree. Yes he is in a muddle but that is both devolution and the NHS lead regulations coming home to roost.For them to call for centralised political planning is a bit rich, every other time they’re calling for independence. So assuming La Sturgeon to get indyref 2 during Covid, she’s going to get an awful mauling when it transpires that really the current policy underpinned by scientific advice Was really the best we could hope for. Still not a peep out of anyone re China’s involvement. This is approaching mid term. Moreover he’s trying to avoid full lockdown which other countries are trying to avoid as well, they simply can’t afford it.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Have to disagree. Yes he is in a muddle but that is both devolution and the NHS lead regulations coming home to roost. For them to call for centralised political planning is a bit rich, every other time they’re calling for independence. So assuming La Sturgeon to get indyref 2 during Covid, she’s going to get an awful mauling when it transpires that really the current policy underpinned by scientific advice Was really the best we could hope for. Still not a peep out of anyone re China’s involvement. This is approaching mid term. Moreover he’s trying to avoid full lockdown which other countries are trying to avoid as well, they simply can’t afford it.

I grant you that he's been hit by unprecedented problems for a modem prime minister - the only parallel I can think of being the Spanish flue of 1918/19. And the medical advice he's been given is clerkly inconsistent. Yet some things are clear:
  • The disease is most lethal if you are over 70; below that the risk is much reduced and is minimal for younger people
  • The three "C's" apply; Crowds, Confined Spaces and Conversation - the risk increases the more "C's" apply to your current situation
  • The risk of transmission is highest in area of high population density - cities. It's significant reduced in loosely populated areas.
  • Different lockdown regimes are not having much impact on the death rate - well observed loose lockdown regimes are as effective as less policed, tighter lock down regimes.
  • We can learn from countries that are 2 months ahead of us on the Covid 19 curve. We get a preview of future events that will hit the UK two months later.
Given the above, it would not be difficult to a construct a course of action that should remain unchanged for a minimum of three months.

As to the La Sturgeons of this world - Boris neds to say loud and clear that at the end of the crisis, the Office of National Statistics will conduct an independent investigation at the end of this crisis, identifying the respective death rates per capita in England, Scotland, Wales and Norther Ireland. with the model published, along with the input data so it is available for independent scrutiny.

If Sturgeon wants to conduct her own policy, then she should be held accountable for its effects - as should BoJo for his.

BoJo's first problem is inconsistency - frequent changes of direction, giving the impression of indecision. His second problem is is failure to consult parliament before each change of course - the need to explain his decisions in debate might have removed the worst of the u-turns.

BoJo has got a lot of other things right, but Covid 19 has not been his finest hour.

Wordsmith
 
BoJo's first problem is inconsistency - frequent changes of direction, giving the impression of indecision. His second problem is is failure to consult parliament before each change of course - the need to explain his decisions in debate might have removed the worst of the u-turns.

BoJo has got a lot of other things right, but Covid 19 has not been his finest hour.

Wordsmith

How much of that is to do with Boris himself or him reacting to Covid being weaponised, politicised and used against him in a manner that isn't happening to the leaders of the Welsh and Scottish parish councils devolved parliaments
 
We can learn from countries that are 2 months ahead of us on the Covid 19 curve. We get a preview of future events that will hit the UK two months later.

Uh - Huh

Madrid is to go into lockdown in coming days after the region’s leader reluctantly agreed on Thursday to obey a central government order to ban non-essential travel in the Spanish capital that is Europe’s worst COVID-19 hotspot.


The disease is most lethal if you are over 70; below that the risk is much reduced and is minimal for younger people

You keep saying this and totally ignore the heart, lungs and brain damage issue. Whilst the risk of death might be much reduced, we still don't know what the long term consequences are.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
How much of that is to do with Boris himself or him reacting to Covid being weaponised, politicised and used against him in a manner that isn't happening to the leaders of the Welsh and Scottish parish councils devolved parliaments

BoJo's u-turns have been his own decision, as has been the failure to allow parliament to debate his strategy. The latter might have resulted in a more measured approach to the crisis.

The devolved assemblies have had no influence on that aspect of BoJo's behaviour.

Wordsmith
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Uh - Huh


From the ONS

In our previous analysis, between 7 March and 1 May 2020, non-COVID-19 deaths were 15.3% above five-year average levels for that period; from then up until 10 July, non-COVID-19 deaths have been 6.0% below the average.

Tight lockdowns reduce Covid 19 deaths and bring forward non-Covid 19 ones.

Time to let people take their own decision on risk - and indeed on the risk from long term damage from Covid 19.

I can chose whether to go on public transport, use my car or stay at home; I can chose whether to walk into a pub or supermarket or not depending on the precautions it is taking.

My choice and my risk...

Wordsmith
 
I can chose whether to go on public transport, use my car or stay at home; I can chose whether to walk into a pub or supermarket or not depending on the precautions it is taking.

My choice and my risk...

You do whatever you want, you are an individual of little consequence in the grand scheme of things

In a June paper5, he and his team analysed clinical details for 125 people in the United Kingdom with COVID-19 who had neurological or psychiatric effects. Of these, 62% had experienced damage to the brain’s blood supply, such as strokes and haemorrhages, and 31% had altered mental states, such as confusion or prolonged unconsciousness — sometimes accompanied by encephalitis, the swelling of brain tissue. Ten people who had altered mental states developed psychosis.

.

Fill your boots.
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
From the ONS



Tight lockdowns reduce Covid 19 deaths and bring forward non-Covid 19 ones.

Time to let people take their own decision on risk - and indeed on the risk from long term damage from Covid 19.

I can chose whether to go on public transport, use my car or stay at home; I can chose whether to walk into a pub or supermarket or not depending on the precautions it is taking.

My choice and my risk...

Wordsmith


Your choice could put others at risk, they may not get a choice.
Some people are retards and need that choice making for them, or a way of dealing with them when they get caught doing something stupid.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
You do whatever you want, you are an individual of little consequence in the grand scheme of things

.
Fill your boots.

Can I recommend reading what you post first.
Symptoms affecting the central nervous system occurred in at least 0.04% of people with SARS and in 0.2% of those with MERS. Given that there are now 28.2 million confirmed cases of COVID-19 worldwide, this could imply that between 10,000 and 50,000 people have experienced neurological complications.

So, if we take the upper limit - 0.2% - for every million people getting Covid 19 in the UK, 200 may suffer long term symptoms. If we take the alternative 0.04%, it's just 40 people per million.

For the entire population of the UK (60 million) this amounts to 2,400 - 12,000 people with long term problems.

Which, harsh though it is for the individuals concerned, is an acceptable risk when trying to get the economy moving again.

Wordsmith
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
Your choice could put others at risk, they may not get a choice.
Some people are retards and need that choice making for them, or a way of dealing with them when they get caught doing something stupid.

See figures in my other post - boy racers in cars will probably injure/kill as many as the long term health damage from Covid 19. There are also a series of academic papers showing the increased non-Covid 19 deaths from other factors such as lack of hospital treatment or long term unemployment from a reduced economy.

There is risk whatever you do. You cannot focus on the Covid 19 risk to the exclusion of all others.

Wordsmith
 

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