Bob, the FFL assassin, RMP, CIA Merc has admitted PTSD.

Indeed you are correct.

I wasn't there but his Marine buddy whose name he found on 'the wall' and ostentatiously wept next to for a photo op was.

What was that Marines name?

Mr Rose served in Hong Kong in the 1960's. He would definitely have been issued a yellow UN Health Card or a "Carte Jaune"

Looked like this

View attachment 302455

There is a record of Mr Rose's Carte Jaune.

There are specific innoculations that are discrete for Vietnam that were not deemed necessary for Hong Kong service.

I wonder if he can tell us what they were and when he received them.

'Carte Jaune's' are very difficult to purchase on ebay and besides the duplicate records are held by the WHO in Zurich.

Military or otherwise, nobody got into South Vietnam, without a valid passport, visa and Carte Jaune. You can ask anyone "who was there, man!"

John Del Vecchio claims that only 1 in 10 serving in Vietnam were involved in combat. The rest were bureaucrats that made sure people's papers were in order, the mail got delivered, reports and returns were completed and submitted in time. This is what the 'mi chang' with PRU's did,

Phoenix was classified then. It isn't now.

The 'Greek letter' projects were, compared to Phoenix, super dooper double top secret at the time for political reasons. But even DELTA, GAMMA, SIGMA and OMEGA are all de-classified these days. There was nothing particularly special about Phoenix.

An enterprising journalist should be able to easily establish the facts.

I am afraid I must disagree with you in regard to passports and visas.
In the two tours I spent there, I never had a passport or visa at any time, in fact, did not need a passport for any military travel whilst I was in.
I did indeed have a health card and recall it was designated HQ8.
I did not acquire a passport until roughly 1978, and that was after I left the green machine.
 
I am afraid I must disagree with you in regard to passports and visas.
In the two tours I spent there, I never had a passport or visa at any time, in fact, did not need a passport for any military travel whilst I was in.
I did indeed have a health card and recall it was designated HQ8.
I did not acquire a passport until roughly 1978, and that was after I left the green machine.

You definitely did a pre-embarkation medical which was recorded. The rest was done for you.

Military bureaucracy ,it has a purpose...

You were processed in batches.

Mr Rose apparently travelled alone...

IIRC you have other SE Asia service. Malaysia? Without any prompting from me or the studio audience. Can you recall any particular difference between the pre- embarkation medical for say Malaysia and Vietnam?

There was a specific difference.
 
I am sure that after working in Vietnam and being part of the Phoenix program Bob will be fluent in Vietnamese...

Didi Mau, boocoo Vietcong, numbah 10....
You neglected the #1 phrase, me luv you long time GI,we go boom boom....
 
You definitely did a pre-embarkation medical which was recorded. The rest was done for you.

Military bureaucracy ,it has a purpose...

You were processed in batches.

Mr Rose apparently travelled alone...

IIRC you have other SE Asia service. Malaysia? Without any prompting from me or the studio audience. Can you recall any particular difference between the pre- embarkation medical for say Malaysia and Vietnam?

There was a specific difference.

You are right. We traveled from Terendak via Singapore to Vung Tau.
I don't recall any specific medical before the move as we by dint of being in Malaysia were deemed to be medically fit.
Possibly the only thing we had done was to be inoculated against yellow fever, but after so long that is only a guess.
When we arrived in SVN, there was never any interaction with any Viet authorities at all. They may have been given a nominal roll in the form of a flight manifest, but that was above my paygrade, but like I said, a passport was not needed by us.
In the case of this fellow, yes he undoubtedly would have needed one unless his tale is true (but I very much doubt it) and the CIA smoothed the way.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
An excellent picture showing the exact sort of stance you need. ..


To get all your fingers broken
Hey @AlienFTM
Why the SABC are you this bloke or what ? ;)
0a992d8dbcb5d632247e8565e021a4dc--kung-fu-tv-series.jpg
 
Y
In the case of this fellow, yes he undoubtedly would have needed one unless his tale is true (but I very much doubt it) and the CIA smoothed the way.

One thing that lends a tiny bit of credence to the tale is that the CIA in Vietnam were incredibly short handed.

Most of their paramilitary operations were handed over to MACV-SOG in 1964 because they just didn't have enough staff with the requisite military experience to make it work. That is very early on in the piece.

Phoenix stretched them even further. With over 100 PIOC's established in Vietnam they had run out of manpower. The CIA were using personnel seconded from The US Department of Finance just to keep the show on the road. People who couldn't tell a motor cycle from an Intelligence cycle, but could keep records were put in positions of great responsibility.

Institutionally the CIA was an extremely stressed organisation in the 1960's. They simply did not have the trained and experienced people to implement 'Phoenix' properly.

At any level. PIOC, PIC or PRU.

That said, the results that they did achieve with the material they had was first rate.

Anyone who had anything to do with the CIA in Vietnam in the 1960's always have a quiet giggle regarding the notoriety of Phoenix.

British Army Intelligence in Northern Ireland for example played the same game but was far better resourced in terms of organisation and training. They received none of the notoriety and all of the operational results.

Which is as it should be.
 

Q_Man

Old-Salt
You are right. We traveled from Terendak via Singapore to Vung Tau.
I don't recall any specific medical before the move as we by dint of being in Malaysia were deemed to be medically fit.
Possibly the only thing we had done was to be inoculated against yellow fever, but after so long that is only a guess.
When we arrived in SVN, there was never any interaction with any Viet authorities at all. They may have been given a nominal roll in the form of a flight manifest, but that was above my paygrade, but like I said, a passport was not needed by us.
In the case of this fellow, yes he undoubtedly would have needed one unless his tale is true (but I very much doubt it) and the CIA smoothed the way.


Flew into Belize on a Tristar, no immigration. Fast forward two months, jungle border post to Guatemala to go to Tikkal to the Mayan ruins and we realised we had no inbound stamp so could get no outbound stamp. The border guard moved the date on the stamp back a few days for out inbound stamp and them stamped us out. 20 Belizean bucks.

I took the advance party through Kenyatta International Airport with the words "no passport, flash MOD 90 and stay in a line on the shoulder of the man in front. Still lost a planty.

Dont always use passports.
 

Q_Man

Old-Salt
Unfortunately I found the planty again. I can no longer picture his face, but he burst into tears when he ran over a dog at Archers Post, killing it. Asked permission to bury it, but I said no. I'm a cnut.
 
Unfortunately I found the planty again. I can no longer picture his face, but he burst into tears when he ran over a dog at Archers Post, killing it. Asked permission to bury it, but I said no. I'm a cnut.


BBQ it?
 

Q_Man

Old-Salt
Not a bad shout as we were on rat packs. And yet we had a chef with us who's job it was to make sure there was a pot of boiling water for us to drop the boil in the bags in. His only job. Breakfast and dinner. And he got LSA.
 
D

Deleted 145301

Guest
KENPO UK

Grand Master Robert Grey Wolf Rose was born in Sutton Coldfield, Warwickshire on the 21 of August 1937.



His father was a member of HM Forces and half blood Native American. His grand father was Scottish and grandmother - full blood Northern Cheyenne, Native American.



During the War time period GM Rose was brought up on the Northern Cheyenne Reservation, in Lame Deer, Montana.



Returning to the UK in 1946. Until 1980 he was a contract officer and served in various armies and countries, including the USA.



1973 on returning to the UK from the USA and at that time living in Plymouth, Devon, and having a third degree black sash grade in Hung Gar Kung Fu from training in Hong Kong for three years, he started training, at the local sports centre in Plymouth, in Bujinkai Karate till one of the students told him that a guy was teaching American Kenpo Karate in Landrake, Cornwall.

Robert Rose decided to go there and see what it was like. On arrival there he met Mr

Bob Rose

18969e_8153eccc664c47bf9f2fe4d8d5e8ef5c.webp

Phil Hegarty, who was a first Kyu Brown belt. Here is how Master Rose describes the meeting:



" Phil invited me to train in his class as a guest, which was on a Sunday morning. I did a full training session which I tended to find much closer to what I have done in Hung Gar. Then at the end of the class two students were brought up individually to do some free style sparring. Phil then asked me if I would like to spar with some one.



At the time in Kenpo the grades were a white belt with brown tips on until brown belt. Which then add black tips on for kyu grades. Being a little over confident in my ability I looked around at the white belts and said that I guess that Can only spar with you. That was my first mistake. The second mistake was going on the floor and bowing to him

.

The next few minutes I started to believe that you learn kenpo karate by lying on the floor, where I spent most of my time. The speed and power of his hand work completely shot me down and I was thoroughly humiliated. After the class I thanked him very much and left. But for the rest of the week I could not get out of my head what had happened to me. And I knew that whatever this guy had I wanted. So on the following Sunday I went back and asked him if he would teach me.
 
D

Deleted 60082

Guest
KENPO UK

Grand Master Robert Grey Wolf Rose was born in Sutton Coldfield, Warwickshire on the 21 of August 1937.



His father was a member of HM Forces and half blood Native American. His grand father was Scottish and grandmother - full blood Northern Cheyenne, Native American.



During the War time period GM Rose was brought up on the Northern Cheyenne Reservation, in Lame Deer, Montana.



Returning to the UK in 1946. Until 1980 he was a contract officer and served in various armies and countries, including the USA.



1973 on returning to the UK from the USA and at that time living in Plymouth, Devon, and having a third degree black sash grade in Hung Gar Kung Fu from training in Hong Kong for three years, he started training, at the local sports centre in Plymouth, in Bujinkai Karate till one of the students told him that a guy was teaching American Kenpo Karate in Landrake, Cornwall.

Robert Rose decided to go there and see what it was like. On arrival there he met Mr

Bob Rose

18969e_8153eccc664c47bf9f2fe4d8d5e8ef5c.webp

Phil Hegarty, who was a first Kyu Brown belt. Here is how Master Rose describes the meeting:



" Phil invited me to train in his class as a guest, which was on a Sunday morning. I did a full training session which I tended to find much closer to what I have done in Hung Gar. Then at the end of the class two students were brought up individually to do some free style sparring. Phil then asked me if I would like to spar with some one.



At the time in Kenpo the grades were a white belt with brown tips on until brown belt. Which then add black tips on for kyu grades. Being a little over confident in my ability I looked around at the white belts and said that I guess that Can only spar with you. That was my first mistake. The second mistake was going on the floor and bowing to him

.

The next few minutes I started to believe that you learn kenpo karate by lying on the floor, where I spent most of my time. The speed and power of his hand work completely shot me down and I was thoroughly humiliated. After the class I thanked him very much and left. But for the rest of the week I could not get out of my head what had happened to me. And I knew that whatever this guy had I wanted. So on the following Sunday I went back and asked him if he would teach me.
Isn't he also a Grand Master of the Ancient Art of Bûlşētõ?
 
1 REP? Wasn't that the FFL lot that were disbanded after the failed coup attempt by the Frog military in Algeria? Seem to recall it from Simon Murray's book on his time in the Legion.

Anyhow.... this Bob guy, definitely not a chap you want to upset down the local....where he is propping up the bar.... talking in hushed tones about being the second man on the balcony at the Saigon Gangbang Club.
 
I met this guy few times back in the 80s at his martial.art studio he had at the time, he said he done vietnam reenactment,I even seen him and 3 other guys wearing US 1970s style service uniforms with all the bling on, he claimed to be an ex british para,even wore a t-shirt with british para logo, I didn't know anything about his service back then apart from what he told us, ex para,ex legion,served in Vietnam etc, yes he is an old guy now,but for decades he's been telling the same thing or similar, personally I think it's bollox.
 

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