Bob Geldof is a bit of a To$$er - Discuss:

Blimey, I can't respond to all of that, (sorry about spelling naval wrong - I also get pathetically sea sick on boats - not very tar like I'm afraid!). My early posts were in response to posts I had just read and strung together probably don't read very coherently. I guess they came across as trying to put someone down - didn't mean to do that particularly, just provide a robust response.

The debt relief is only one tool in the box but it seems to me to be an important one. And if Mugabe et al were hoping for some of it I hope they're told to go and swing for it.

The statement about the moderate Muslims belly button gazing was just a general observation - the process whereby black African leaders start to objectively and openly criticise each other will be a really painful one, albeit nevessary. I think that holds true for Muslims as well. It is not going to be easy for them to criticise the very individuals who they have been brought up to revere and believe unquestioningly.
Tiffy_71 said:
frenchperson said:
I'd imagine many of the people on this forum, labelling him as a to$$er or even worse have, at some point, signed a dotted line and volunteered to give away certain aspects of their own freedom - the ones enjoyed by civilians.

You're carrying out the wishes of the Prime Minister, 'TCH' and numerous other individuals whom many of you detest, and you may even have to act against your own consciences because you're there euphemistically to 'do a job'.

Who are the real to$$ers?
To answer your three points above FP (Nice to see you back unscathed from your holiday....)
1. Give away freedom to erm.. fight for the freedom of society (that includes you).
2. TCH - long gone.. keep up if you want us to respond to your cutting edge wit and repartee. why euphemistically? I was doing my job.
3. erm.. you I feel.

Feel free to respond
Holiday was great, thanks...

1. The freedom enjoyed by civilians is by no means ideal and currently the military is engaged in fighting against an exaggerated and bogus threat that doesn't jeopardise our freedom - it's based on furthering the interests of governments in league with multinationals. You're basically being duped. You can also be deployed against the threat of an uprising at home by civilians whether you agree with it or not - so you'd be fighting against society in this case, if you were told to - and don't you have to carry out orders and ask questions later?

2. OK - I'm wrong on this - he's gone but not forgotten. I know you are literally doing your job, but I meant the 'doing my job' common euphemistic catch-all statement covering all dodgy occupations - from traffic wardens to gas chamber attendants.

3. erm... I don't agree.
civvie_visitor said:
frenchperson said:
Bob Geldof is a free spirit, his own man, directly responsible to nobody and free to do what he wants - he's chosen to put a great deal of energy and time into this campaign - ok, his personal wealth and contacts make it easier - and it appears to have worked, so far.

I'd imagine many of the people on this forum, labelling him as a to$$er or even worse have, at some point, signed a dotted line and volunteered to give away certain aspects of their own freedom - the ones enjoyed by civilians.

You're carrying out the wishes of the Prime Minister, 'TCH' and numerous other individuals whom many of you detest, and you may even have to act against your own consciences because you're there euphemistically to 'do a job'.

Ultimately, you're tools of Tony Blair and then Gordon Brown to do as he pleases - which includes sacking you if you're 'not needed'!

Who are the real to$$ers?
I assume from your post that you are independently wealthy?
If not, then I assume you have a job?
If so, do you admire all your bosses unreservedly?
Do they never give you instructions you feel to be wrong or stupid?
If they do, do you carry them out. despite disagreeing with them?
I haven't signed on the dotted line you mentioned, yet all of the above are as true of me (except for the independently wealthy bit) and of anyone else I know who is in paid employment, as it is for members of the Armed Forces.
I also suspect that they (Forces personnel) get a higher level of job satisfaction than most employees in other spheres.
So, unless you ARE independently wealthy, or own your own company, ultimately you're a tool of your boss, to use as he/she pleases, including sacking you when you're no longer required.
You just named yourself a to$$er too, didn't you?
Damned sporting of you, I'd say.
(Actually, even if you are wealthy/self-employed, I consider you a to$$er)
I have a job, but it's different. I can arrive late now and again. I can walk away from my employer NOW without fear of reprisal - I have a greater degree of freedom - this makes the job somewhat different?

In other words, it's not worth making the comparisons you've made...

And coming back on message, Bob Geldof is to be admired. He can similarly do as he pleases, and he's chosen to do what he strongly believes in, whilst risking a roasting from all the newspapers listed below (as long as he isn't deemed too popular with the public - it would threaten sales).

You're right on one score - job satisfaction is not very high
Frenchie: if geldof is such a saint, let me quote something I read in the paper today re: Live8, and what it's clearly echoing, Live Aid.

What did Live Aid do?:

"Sbowering money, trucks and food on Mengistu's Ethiopia entrenched a vicious regime and aided one of the most cruel forced migrations in history. Ethiopia was never short of food.'
cdn_spr said:
Frenchie: if geldof is such a saint, let me quote something I read in the paper today re: Live8, and what it's clearly echoing, Live Aid.

What did Live Aid do?:

"Sbowering money, trucks and food on Mengistu's Ethiopia entrenched a vicious regime and aided one of the most cruel forced migrations in history. Ethiopia was never short of food.'
He's not a saint.

It's not echoing Live Aid. This is about raising awareness, not cash.

If you're reading papers that draw comparisons between then and now, they're being dishonest.

There are, have been and always will be corrupt leaders; and there will always be western banks willing to accept their cash. Where does this cash often originate - there are also western companies that go in for wholesale bribery of these leaders to get their own way - something that is very rarely mentioned on this site.
""Sbowering money, trucks and food on Mengistu's Ethiopia entrenched a vicious regime and aided one of the most cruel forced migrations in history. Ethiopia was never short of food.' "

Must take issue with that quote - The USSR bankrolled Mengistu, he had been promoting his bizarre kind of barbarism for some time before Live Aid. Ethiopia was extremely short of food in the north for all the usual reasons - civil war, years of drought and appalling management by the Government (who I suspect saw the starvation as a rather useful help in their war against northern rebels).

The south of Ethiopia is much more fertile and capable of producing enough food for everyone in Ethiopia - eventually. But I give you a rather chilling thought - the north of Ethiopia was as fertile as the south up to only 40 years ago -it only took 4 decades to turn it into a virtual desert.
though apprantly bob called mengustu a knut to his face
And from

Whilst recriminations echo around Britain and Europe following Saint Bob Lord Sir Geldof's announcement that Live Ate will take place on 2 July, African leaders are welcoming the news. As Madonna, Sir John Elton, Sir Paul McCartney, Annie Lennox (whose combined ages are older than the African continent itself) line up for the worldwide songfest, an equal number of crusted demagogues wait patiently for the resulting windfall.

"Great news for Zimbabwe," Robert Mugabe told The Rockall Times this week. Speaking by clockwork phone from his Italian villa in Italy, Mugabe gushed: "I have a fleet of Mercedes Benz motor cars which have been off the road for eighteen months, but now I'll be able to get them serviced and the people of Zimbabwe will once again be happy to see their government driving in their Mercedes Benz motor cars. D'you know, I used to think the west was a stupid colonial place full of interfering ignoramuses. But now I change my mind; you're just stupid."

Omar el-Bashir, President of Sudan and great grandson of ITV telepundit Martin Bashir, was equally welcoming of the Live Ate principle. "Write our debts off, by all means," Mr el-Bashir told us. "Let us start again with 'a clean slate' as you say in your English pubs. Al-Qaeda costs us a fortune to commission, so any bit of aid money you have lying around would be most welcome. I thought the Chinese government was generous, but they're tightarses compared to you."

Obasanjo: Renault MeganeA spokesman for Nigeria's President Obasanjo was more cautious about the news. "Beware of these Trojan horses," he said somewhat enigmatically. "If there are preconditions attached then they will not be quite so welcome." Pushed to give more details Mr Mbenzi, who handles President Obasanjo's personal bank accounts replied: "We have Charles Taylor here; a much maligned man in the west. But he is a good friend of President Obasanjo and any pressure to hand him over to the authorities in Sierra Leone would be resisted. But we have our own oil, so we don't need to care too much what happens." He then offered to buy my 1997 Renault Megane for four times its asking price, but I politely refused.

However, the news of Live Ate's ambitions has not received universal approval. Militia representatives in the Congo district of Ituri, where 60,000 people have been killed in fighting over rich mineral resources, were incensed by the plan. "Mind dey's own fu*cking business, we's have de war on here," an angry twelve-year-old boy told a doctor from Medecin sans Frontieres. "I make $12 a day; if white man starts de aid programme and puts me back in school I have fuc*k all. I work for Western African Minerals Corp, based in Washington and Johannesburg. You ask dem what dey think of aid. Dey spit in your eye. Leave us alone."

In Somalia, made famous by the America film Black Hawk Down in which a bunch of American guys crash a helicopter, fighting warlords were united in their dismay. "We were not consulted," said Osman Ali Atto at a joint press conference. Sitting next to him, Mohammed Qanyare Affra told the assembled journalists: "We never received our royalties for appearing as extras and consultants for the film, and now the west is taking the piss again. We decide what happens here; not Mister Brown or Mister Blair or Mister Bush, or those sissys in Nairobi claiming to be the government." Also at the table were Hussein Aideed, back from his holidays in Tonga, and Muse Sudi Yalahow who didn't speak because of a bad headcold.

Similar affront was expressed by Joseph Kony, leader of the Lords Resistance Army, currently hacking the heads and limbs off great swathes of Uganda. "You people in the west do nothing for decades, and then suddenly you're here. What is a man like me to do? There isn't even any oil here! I am a victim of your whims and fantasies. I offer a ceasefire, because we're all a bit tired at the moment, and you think we're giving up. No aid. No grants. I don't want to spend the rest of my life working in a call centre in Kampala."

Share prices tumbled in Western African Minerals Corp as news spread of the initiative to rid Africa of debt, corrupt leaders and increase aid to undermine civil war and tribal disputes. As the realisation dawned that removing corrupt leaders was off the agenda prices rose again and closed 1.3 points up on the day. "A big relief," said an eighteen-stone spokesman for the company. "We want to see the status quo maintained here, not Hyde Park. If people left everything as it is and let the markets sort it out Africa would be back on its feet in less than 340 years."
Someone else thinking along the same lines:

Bob Geldof makes me sick
Stephen McDowell

Bob Geldof makes me sick. So do all his self-admiring rock star cronies and the revolting pop industry. There you are, I have said it now. I feel better and you can burn me for a heretic. I feel cleansed.

Someone has to say it and it might as well be me. I remember being annoyed by Live Aid 20 years ago, and not because I was still at school and could not physically go; I was much too “cool” to admit to even liking any of the bands that played. I did enjoy my free Nelson Mandela though.

I was annoyed because of all the sanctimonious posturing from spoilt bandwagon-jumping rock stars that emerged from their tax haven mansions to so magnanimously give their time to the cause of a failing continent.

Crusties cashing in

And those were just the ones whose careers were in full flush. Obviously the motives for the 15-minuters, for who fame flickered like a candle and went out (which would have been the best charitable course for the benefit of humanity they could have taken), was entirely altruistic. As was the case for those past bands who ‘reformed’ especially to add their cultural weight to the unimpeachably apolitical cause.

Some of these bands had not only broken up, but done so in the ugly public limelight of the High Court, as they squabble about rights and names and, basically, yet more millions. Their members have not so much as said good morning to each other in decades and yet, there they will be raising their clasped hands aloft in triumph before millions of adoring fans.

I am absolutely positive there will be no releases of Greatest Hits albums in the near future, or even the odd world tour where the tickets to monumental stadium gigs will cost upwards of $100. No siree, no way.

Don’t blame me (personally)

I do not wish to get political here and I am perfectly satisfied Sir Bob deeply feels every syllable he incoherently mutters on the subject, but Africa is a basket case.
Of course, no one could deny that shining a light on the misery that is life, or death for that matter, for millions of unfortunate souls in Africa can be a bad thing. And it is to be hoped that whatever these people do, that the money which will be raised does not go the same way as the last lot, and the lot before that, and the gazillions which have gone into the continent in aid.

I am also made nauseous by the tacit assumption, or not so tacit for those who watched Sir Bob’s recent TV escapade, that it is somehow all my fault, personally, that African babies are still dying. Well, colonialism was not my fault, dammit, and I am not going to feel guilty about it.

Out of Africa

As I say, I do not wish to be over political but it strikes me that whatever ails Africa has an African cause and therefore the solution is also African (and there are not any Africans invited to play in Hyde Park).

Imploring one million assorted crusties and middle-class malcontents to descend on Edinburgh to put pressure on the G8 leaders is not just irresponsible and unbelievably narcissistic, it is also futile.

The periodic G8, G7, G5, or whatever, according to how many fat cat club members wish to turn up, is not famous for achieving much except mutually beneficial hot air.

It is interesting to note that very few African commentators have much positive to say about the report up for discussion from the Commission for Africa.

Drop the dictators

Debt cancellation. Gargantuan sums of money which have been largely trousered by successive governments of breathtaking corruption and which are being clawed back, equally corruptly, by the aforementioned G8 countries. It cannot be a bad thing, and there is no hope of it being recovered in any case, but it will have zero effect on African subsistence farmers who did not see any of it in the first place and probably do not know, or care, who or what their government is. Whether aid is doubled or not it will go the same way as the rest unless the last proposal, better governance, is cracked and this will first involve Western governments not supporting tin-pot dictators in return for mineral extraction rights. And in an era where oil is the global currency is this all that likely?

The removal of trade barriers with Africa appears to be, and has been criticised as such, an attempt to turn Africa into a free-trade zone, which in this context is a euphemism for a shopping mall.

Middle-class pilgrimage

Of course Africa needs help, and needs it immediately, but it needs the help of Africans, not us pouring more and more money pointlessly into an increasingly desperate black hole.

Burn me again for heresy, then, but if Bob’s acolytes really want to help, rather than just salve their middle-class egos on a pilgrimage to the enormously civilised Edinburgh, go to Africa. Go and protest there, where it might really do some good.

Actually, better still, get Sir Bob, U2 (the lead singer is generously suing his former stylist to get his hat back) and all the earnest wannabe legends in the line-up to do it. At least keep their self-satisfied smirking off my airwaves while I do the usual thing and put my £10 in an envelope for Africa.

Send your comments to the editor
I am fecked off with him and that pr1ck Bono for trying to be my moral conscience all the time. Millionaires who swan about in their mansions with a rock-staf lifestyle ought to take a look at what is going wrong in this country first before they want to try and sort out someone elses. I've done enough ops in Africa to know we will never easily solve the problem. Even if all debts were wiped out tomorrow, when the the next dispute comes along old tribal rivalries will be used to solve it, the next dictator will move in and we'll be back to square one. Maybe it's the cynic in me...

Plus, those tree-hugging, filthy unwashed hippy oxygen theives at Gleneagles who are using the opportunity to cause trouble need copious baton ration from the Rozzers. It's been a long day. Oh, and Dubya just cycled into an off duty policeman. Who wasn't asleep. Or lying down. Honest.
I dopn't agree with you bunch of moanin minnies. At least Geldof gives a toss. He is giving his time and his effort while you sit on your fat arses and whinge or bully young recruits you bunch of *******.

What the **** are you doing for those less fortunate. When was the last ******* time ytou went to bed hungry, or saw your chiuld die from lack of a simple injection for malaria something so preventable. So **** off back to the pub you bunch of fat ******* tosserrs. Bet you get your kicks out of picking on some young recruit because you have'nt got the balls to take on someone your own size.
snowdoniasteve said:
What a negative bunch of tossers you lot are. When did you last do anything for anyone less fortunate. When did any of you tossers go to bed hungry or witness a cbhild of yours die due to a lack of a simple injection for malaria. So get off your fat arses and stop critisising someone who does give a * and does make a change for the better of this fucked up worlds.

There are nough psychos running aro9und army barracks beating up and making life hell for youg recruits. Do any of you fat tossers stept in and do anything ? no you do * all. So look to yourselves you bunch of faty lazy slobs before you beging to criticise someone for doing something constructive.
A well thought out and intelligent bit of prose there. Did you think all that up yourself or did you get your mum to help you?

I can see you're going to fit right in here.
I think Snowdonia Steve has embarked on a hiding to nothing. From the sounds of it - and number of posts - he's a civvy and never been near a uniform in his life (unless he's up to mischief at Gleneagles and has been stoofed by a Rozzer, in which case he hates all things in uniform).

Don't give a toss? Lazy fat wa*kers, etc? When was the last time one of your mates got shot doing his job? Or blown everywhere? Ask those of us who knew one of the dozens in the Armed Forces who died in the last few years, more oftne that not helping others. Wholly ignorant comments like yours (save your opinion Geldof gives a t*ss, which I admit he does but he'a also f****** annoying, with Bono being worse) are your perogative to make, it's only because we defened your right to free speech. So I am using mine - get real and fcuk off!

See, fine upstanding ARRSE members of the honest variety - the G8 bandwagoners are starting to appear.
Snowdoniasteve, I think you need a reality check here old son. See, the world is a bad place, where bad things happen sometimes. People die needless deaths everyday in every continent. It pricks my conscience to see kids suffering, I am a father myself. Like most of the guys and girls on this website, I have served in countries where we have done what we can to make peoples lives better. I have to say though, from experience life tends to get better for the average Joe when his corrupt, embezzeling leader(s) are removed (Sadaam/Chauchescu/Milosevic et al). You see, those of us who wear the Queens uniform would probably all be prepared to go in and crack a few skulls to liberate these poor wretches from their fate, (Mugabe you'd be first to get it) however whe jump when the grinning, appeasing baboon gives the nod. We do our bit, certainly most Soldiers are very benevolent in their attitudes, look at the work done for the British Legion. What Im trying to get to is, we cant be expected to sort everyones problems out, it just cant be done. Anyone who is naiive enought to think that we can, needs to take a long hard look at themselves. I for one wont be bullied into handing over money, I give to the causes that I choose to, not the ones some pretentious posturing pratt tells me to.

So before you come back with anymore of your shiite, ask yourself 'would I be prepared to go there and risk my life to help others'. If the answer is Yes, then you would already be there in some shape or form. If the answer is no, then take your one post since May 20 2005 and shove it up your rectum.

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