Blues for TA Commissioning Course

#1
Not so hot off the press - but news to arrsers I think.

In line with the One Army concept, IGTA will pay for the next TACC Parade to be in RMAS No 1 Dress for all DETAPO OCdts. They will have to get to RMAS with their No 1 Dress ordered, built and tailored through the RTCs. No blues, no parade. This is a step up from the RMAS Barrack Dress which was a step up from the parade being in ORs No 2 Dress. No swords or rifles (training time bill will be too great).

Onus lies with the RTCs to make it happen.
 
#2
^Was hot topic of discussion at a certain RTC this morning Barbs. Will be a marvellous retention tool on what is a very tough course I reckon. A very, very welcome initiative. I hope someone is in a position to let the powers that be know how appreciative the grass roots are ;)
 
#3
I can't see the benefit to be honest. When are you ever going to wear blues again in the TA? It's not as if we often wear service dress other than on Remembrance Day. These outfits will be stored (presumably) by each RTC, getting tailored slightly smaller each year until they fit noone and they will have to be binned.

Better to spent the money upping the clothing grant so that people can purchase mess dress.

msr
 
#4
msr said:
I can't see the benefit to be honest. When are you ever going to wear blues again in the TA? It's not as if we often wear service dress other than on Remembrance Day. These outfits will be stored (presumably) by each RTC, getting tailored slightly smaller each year until they fit noone and they will have to be binned.

Better to spent the money upping the clothing grant so that people can purchase mess dress.

msr
A view from outside. MSR, you seem to take the appalling non-issue of uniform lying down. No-one in any other reserve forces gets frankly, bugger all, kit. I have spoken about this online before, and I appreciate that you guys have more uniform to get than most other services. That doesn't mean you shouldn't get it. One army and all that.
 
#5
FH,


Sorry, not quite sure that your point is...

I'm not taking this lying down at all. I believe that a larger grant towards mess kit would be of far greater value to TA officers than a set of blues, which will never be worn again.

I can't comment on any other reserve force, as I haven't served with them.

msr
 
#6
msr said:
FH,


Sorry, not quite sure that your point is...

I'm not taking this lying down at all. I believe that a larger grant towards mess kit would be of far greater value to TA officers than a set of blues, which will never be worn again.

I can't comment on any other reserve force, as I haven't served with them.

msr
My point is any serviceman, reserve or regular, officers in particular, represent the armed forces. The TA has been hard done by for a long time and especially since the advent of CS95. As to not wearing them again, the last RMR unit I saw on parade on Armistice were in blue's, the TA unit parading next to them wear in the military equivalent of jeans and a t-shirt. I don't think that is acceptable and it is equally unacceptable to have officers and seniors in one uniform ( one word hint) and the troops in another.

I am not saying you should be out of pocket to buy your mess kit. That's my point, you should have all the uniform that may be needed at any point. Mess kit, SD and blues.


Edited for crap typing
 
#7
I'm with msr.

It's window dressing of the worst order. They're doing it simply to avoid the embarrassment of having TA officers looking like the poor relations. They ARE the poor relations but they don't want them looking like it!. Furthermore, you can't have the situation where the TA don't have them so why do the regulars? - either way, they've taken the soft (cynical) option and kitted them out. I'd rather have a decent shower at the TAC with the money, or a pension, or a better bounty, or equal pay, or a second pair of decent boots. or a para smock, or a set of those gucci gloves which they get and I don't etc etc etc bl**dy etc.

Humbug.

And Fish-head, you can't make the theoretical leap from them having blues for a half hour parade and the Army suddenly changing it's whole kit policy for the TA.
 
#8
Looking at the Lord Mayors parade in 2005, the Heavy side of the London regiment have No. 2 dress tailored to fit them, on issue to each soldier. The RGJ companies had to track down an assortment of No. 1 dress uniforms ( Greens ) that may or may not have fitted them.

One for the our Heavy brethren.
 
#9
I think you will find that the OCdts are measured by the RCT. The Blues are sent to the RTCs by Sandhurst 4 months before the course, for the Div tailor to fit to the individual, the parade happens, everyone looks smart as a button and then the Blues are returned to/left at Sandhurst.
 
#10
as everyone loses a stone on the course the fit won't be too great. There are opps to wear blues in the TA (for many of same things that regs wear them for, weddings, salutes etc) I would have thought a major point would be these will be worn but once, as on commissioning they will be the wrong dress. I thought that was some of the thinking behind getting rid of No2 parade, as under DEPO POs will have no opportunity to wear them prior to commissioning. Then again, while this makes sense I was a guest at the last TACC pass out, and while good things had been added (mainly the commissioning service) the parade looked naff in what was effectively smart working dress.
 
#11
barbarasson said:
Then again, while this makes sense I was a guest at the last TACC pass out, and while good things had been added (mainly the commissioning service) the parade looked naff in what was effectively smart working dress.
One of the Professionally Qualified Officers Courses did their parade in CS95 because not all the TA PQOs had Service Dress. This would have been ok if they had had bought Mess Kit instead which they hadn't.

The TACC Parades used to be in OR No 2 Dress and it looked like a bag of sh1t - over worn, over tailored and over-ironed. With the introduction of DETAPO it was felt that a single uniform would be better for the Parade - hence barrack dress with RMAS belt and forage cap. This is smart, but not smart enough. I think the issue of blues will make it all a lot smarter and more effective... with more bodies on Parade it will also look far better.

Window-dressing? Maybe. It is also a useful presentational demonstration that the future of the TA is being taken seriously. Is it so bad to do everything in limited powers to improve the image of the TA? Don't forget that the figures of those completing Mod 4 from the TA rather than UOTC do not make good reading. Lets look at the recruiting message and the retention issues associated with it.
 
#12
barbs said:
Window-dressing? Maybe. It is also a useful presentational demonstration that the future of the TA is being taken seriously. Is it so bad to do everything in limited powers to improve the image of the TA?
I really don't like to be negative about good ideas but 'improving the image' really hits at the nub of the problem. I bet the 'image' of the TA will be a photo of the first parade in Blues in Soldier magazine, as you won't see the pictures anywhere else again.

barbs said:
Don't forget that the figures of those completing Mod 4 from the TA rather than UOTC do not make good reading. Lets look at the recruiting message and the retention issues associated with it.
I would suggest that any additional money be spent solving the REAL issue, which you have correctly identified right here.

msr
 
#13
barbs said:
Window-dressing? Maybe. It is also a useful presentational demonstration that the future of the TA is being taken seriously. Is it so bad to do everything in limited powers to improve the image of the TA? Don't forget that the figures of those completing Mod 4 from the TA rather than UOTC do not make good reading. Lets look at the recruiting message and the retention issues associated with it.
So we'll get one picture in the National Press, quite a few in "Soldier", and a smattering in Corps journals.

I agree that it's going to make those attending and on parade very proud, and leave them with a picture on the wall that's going to look very smart, but decent fitting Service Dress and a grant towards their Mess Kit would serve the purpose even better.

It's the triumph of style over substance.
 
#14
barbs said:
With the introduction of DETAPO it was felt that a single uniform would be better for the Parade - hence barrack dress with RMAS belt and forage cap. This is smart, but not smart enough. I think the issue of blues will make it all a lot smarter and more effective... with more bodies on Parade it will also look far better.
By who? Probably some stuffy regular officers who looked out of the window of the Mess onto a TA parade.

I bet they never asked any TA junior officers or TAPOs what they would like the money to be spent on...

barbs said:
It is also a useful presentational demonstration that the future of the TA is being taken seriously.
Now you're just being funny


Pants
 
#15
Window-dressing? Maybe. It is also a useful presentational demonstration that the future of the TA is being taken seriously. Is it so bad to do everything in limited powers to improve the image of the TA? Don't forget that the figures of those completing Mod 4 from the TA rather than UOTC do not make good reading. Lets look at the recruiting message and the retention issues associated with it.[/quote]

I'm not surprised that figures for TA don't stand up well against UOTC. The new system is very thorough, but it places certain unrealistic expectations on recruits (the quoted flash to bang of getting through is unrealistic for most because of courses that need completing and experience being gained before RMAS). UOTC Ocdts however have plenty of time to get on these excellent new courses (MOD 3 done properly is God send). The real battle the tA has is converting type B to Type A commissions, and targeting those who will want to go TA and not reg for UOTC commissions.

As for the feeling of it, going through the commissioning service (at a Reg Friend's pass out after my own commissioning) really felt like completing the process, whereas I'm not sure doing parade in blues rather than No 2s would have made much difference.
 
#16
I don't know if it was issued to them just for the day, but the HAC at the Royal Exchange for Remembrance Sunday were all in No. 1s.

From a naval perspective it does seem strange. When I was playing sailors in the URNU we all had no. 1s (issued) and mess kit (second-hand from HMS Nelson). Heck, even the Sea Cadets manage to sort out their no. 1 uniforms.
 
#17
To be honest, on the day it didn't matter... it was quite warm so wearing a short sleeve shirt was a god-send. Indeed, parading in blues would have looked the bees knees but if you had asked anyone on the square whether they felt it diminshed the day and I'm sure they would have all said no.

I'm with MSR on this one. The paltry sum of £350 odd for Service Dress and Mess Kit is laughable, and does more to damage the concept of 'One Army' than supplying blues for the parade. I feel particularly lucky that I'm part of a Corp, so picking up mess dress and Service dress was relatively simple, even though the lot cost me over a grand. For those in a Yeomanry or specialist unit it's a financial nightmare (but... if they want to look like circus lion tamer's...)

When you consider the financial waste within the MOD the cost of properly kitting out our troops is a drop in the ocean...
 
#18
Although I can foresee any number of logistical problems likely to be caused by trying to ship numerous sets of No.1s around the country in time to get them tailored and fitting correctly, in principle this is quite a nice idea.

However I would echo the previous statements that a decent clothing allowance would be appreciated. My requirements for service dress and mess kit seem to be increasing.
 
#19
I'm afraid I'm with the majority, and I think this is not a step forward. Currently serving with a TA Unit and they have a very small allocation of No 1s that is only dragged out by the Colour party maybe once or twice a year. Hey, I'm Reg, and if it wasn't for weddings (and the odd Public Duty) my Blues would still be in the Kashkit bag!!!

I do see the point, that a TA Commissioning Pde should be no different to that of a Reg Pde - but let's be real it really is very very different. I get very bored in this present job of hearing how the 'One Army Concept' is only moments away and the TA and Reg are very nearly on par. Let's be honest it's not happening half as quickly as anyone expects, and there are too many throw away ideas and short term measures - and this is one. This will last a couple of Parades and then the budget man will get his grubby mitts on it and everyone will be back in Barrack dress or even CS95.

While I am taking nothing away from the TA Commissioning Pde (and everything it brings), but this is a step too far and I believe it is only a short term measure. I would much see the time spent on tailoring be spent on a little bit more education for Junior Officers i.e. knowing when and when not to salute, or remembering that a Bde Comd is always addressed as 'Sir' and not as Brigadier, as a new 2Lt called him, because he had heard the CO calling him that!!!!

Rant over!!
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top