Blue Water vs. Littoral Navy - which do we need nowadays ?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by FrogPrince, Jun 14, 2006.

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  1. HMS Clyde becomes first ship built in Portsmouth for nearly 40 years
    14 Jun 06

    The first complete ship to be built in Portsmouth Naval Base for nearly 40 years has been loaded out from the VT Shipbuilding assembly hall today, Wednesday, June 14 2006.

    The launching of the 80m Offshore Patrol Vessel Helicopter (OPVH), HMS Clyde, marked the renaissance of shipbuilding at the Base turning the clock back to the launch of the Leander Class frigate HMS Andromeda in May 1967.

    HMS Clyde is an enhanced River Class design with a helicopter deck capable of accepting helicopters up to the size of the new Merlin aircraft, increased accommodation to cater for an embarked force, a 30mm gun, higher levels of survivability and surveillance radar. The new design is built with increased watertight subdivisions for a higher level of survivability, and incorporates active fin stabilisers to improve seakeeping and expand the operating envelope for helicopter operations.

    She will accommodate a crew of 36 (six officers, nine senior rates and 21 junior rates), berthed in single or twin berth cabins with en suite facilities. There will be additional accommodation for up to 20 extra personnel, which could be an embarked military force, trainees or headquarters staff.
  2. I think Tom will pleased we still have a Navy. A Navy he has always been able to count on.
  3. Chances are that these new OPVH's will deploy to the Falkland Islands sooner rather than later to replace the old ships there...
  4. Blue...but we'll be a littoral one before too long.
  5. Luxury!!
  6. Don't you mean a little one before too long?

  7. A glorified coastal force.
  8. Littoral is the way ahead in my opinion. The days of two navies knocking the shite out of each other are well and truely gone. Littoral ops are what will occupy the RN and the USN (the biggest navy in the world but the second best!) in the future. Africa/Middle East etc ops will be conducted close into land. Asymmetric warfare will be the choice of the discerning raghead!
  9. The SBS / LRDG did an excellent job of it around the Dodecanese during WWII, whilst the US created a whole 'Brown Water' Navy to combat insurgents in SE Asia. I'm sure there are also applications vis-a-vis Homeland Security, akin to some of the stuff the USCG does at present.

    IMHO, this small vessel capability is affordable and (climbs on soap box) also within the grasp of our Reserves.

    Blue Water capability = the Chinese, possibly some Iranian subs, can't think of anyone else.
  10. I suppose it's because my grandfather worked at John Brown's shipyard that I noticed a certain irony that HMS Clyde was built in Portsmouth.

    IMHO Littoral is definitely the way forward, as has been stated by those far more knowledgeable than myself on such matters.

    Has anybody been to Blue Water lately?
  11. Listen to any presentation involving Booties and the word littoral will be literally and liberally used! Its the strongest rationale for the retention of the RM. Blue water? Essential for global reach and projection but, realistically, will we ever again act independently on a global reach task? (I know, the persistant threat to Las Malvinas but the two new flat tops and their attendant force are considered to be suitably large enough for that sort of thing.)
  12. HMS Clyde is just a glorified Offshore Patrol Vessel, not a 'combattant' in any real sense, although the design could probably be adapted to this purpose. Even then, it'd be a long way from the USN's Littoral Combat Ships.
  13. Thing is.... You cannot say "we will never......"

    Twenty years ago, when major combat systems that the Forces are recieving today (or haven't gotten yet!) were first being dreamt up, nobody would have predicted that we would not be facing the Red Horde.

    If you write off an effective Blue Water Navy, a usable Armoured Corps or an Air Force with significant capability in the air superiority mission, all of which have been mooted as "we'll never need them again". Then, if something untoward happens which calls for these capabilities there is zero chance of knocking up any of them in a short timeframe.

    The RAF will, arguably, only recover fully from the 1958 decision to cease manned fighter aircraft development programs when Typhoon is deployed.

    As with virtually every other defence decision though, the outcome will be decided on a cost basis.
  14. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    uh-huh....with four nuclear-propelled submarines each armed with 40 atomic weapons....which can be launched from any ocean in the world ,travel 6,000 miles and impact a target to within 120 metres.....

    the largest navy in Western Europe and 4th largest navy in the world....that coastal force ?

    Slightly more than " two canoes and a rowing boat " yet shipmate :)
    ( despite every Government since 1982's best endeavours to destroy the Silent Service)

    Le Chevre - Matelot brevete d'antan

    << Allez les Bleus ! >>
  15. I believe now the second largest in W. Europe, for the first time ever the Frogs now have a larger fleet. Not that it dtracts from your point, much.