BLUE ON BLUE

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Dwarf, Feb 7, 2007.

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  1. I have just read an article in a sunday paper talking about blue on blue contacts and specifically the incident that cost the life of L/Cpl Matty Hull.
    Another example of saving money by not having up to date IFF.

    Taking into account the frustration of the coroner in obtaining evidence from the US military, the obstructiveness of HMG and the obvious desire not to rock the boat by pressuring our Cousins. Further taking into account the completely unfair stance of the US that her brave boys have immunity as criminals whatever their actions yet other nations will have to account for their men before US justice.
    Their stance shows an absolute disrespect for the men who fight alongside them.
    I see that to date no US serviceman has been shot in blue on blue by British servicemen.
    Perhaps one way for this to stop and to make our point would be to do so.

    Or is there a better solution?

    PEACE THROUGH FIRE SUPERIORITY? - JUST GIVE ME A BIG AXE!
     
  2. What makes this particular incident so galling is that despite the experience of 1991 nothing was learned, following on from the death of Matty Hull , nothing was learnt, as evidenced by the killing of three PPCLI soldiers in A'stan.

    What really pIsses me off is that the 'Cousins' do not appear to be bothered about 'lessons learnt'. It has been said that the Yanks were 'weapons free' on that mission, further its has been stated that they were not operating in their 'designated area, hunting ground'. This begs the question why then did they feel they were still operating under 'weapons free' ROE?

    I love the Spams, I'd be a citizen in a vindaloo shit if they'd have me, I just do not care for their approach to allied forces and their place in the Battlespace.
     
  3. Any Blue on Blue is unfortunate, however it is a Fact of War.
    The US looks after it's Troops in a manner which Blur and his gang would never even dream of.
    Hoew the 'Inquest' into the events in Londondary early 70's going ?
    Iraq will be over and done before Tone Dear Tone, allows that hatchet job to report.
    john
    Justice what Crimes are committed in your Name.
     
  4. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    The Blue on Blue incidents are a part of the 'fog of war.' They will happen in every war. We all hate the fact that it happens! Americans have been KIA in both Afganistan and Iraq by blue on blue incidents.

    As you say they haven't been by Brits; however, who does the majority of CAS? The Ameicans right? The majority of Blue on Blue incidents are as a result of CAS, right? Perhaps that might be a factor?

    These pilots have to live with the fact that they killed Americans, Brits or whomever allies, for the rest of there lives. I really feel sorry for them! I would hate to carry that burden the rest of my life.
     
  5. [quote="Trip_Wire

    The Blue on Blue incidents are a part of the 'fog of war.' They will happen in every war. We all hate the fact that it happens! Americans have been KIA in both Afganistan and Iraq by blue on blue incidents.


    These pilots have to live with the fact that they killed Americans, Brits or whomever allies, for the rest of there lives. I really feel sorry for them! I would hate to carry that burden the rest of my life.[/quote]

    I too feel for them Trip however it doesnt take anything away from the fact the pilots in this case should be court martialed for what they did having seen the footage from the cockpit cameras and before you say anything I am an (out of date) FAC who has seen active service they opened fire without out being cleared too and without proerly identifying the target.

    I'm not a yank basher but while this sort of thing happens with no recourse then it will happen again and again. There has to be some consequences for actions commited in war regardless of hwow good the intention.

    The fog of war excuse is purely that an excuse when people mess up!
     
  6. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    meiktilaman:

    I have no problem with a military trial and/or court martial of soldiers or airman that are convicted of gross negligence, etc. in such a cases; however, I do dislike trials by the media and those that were not in the circle of the real facts in the case. Like Jack Webb said 'just the facts mame, just the facts'

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Webb

    The fact that such an incident, envolves Americans Vs Brits (or any other foreign military) can bring nationalsim into the forefront of such off the hip judgements too.

    Keep in mind, here we are fighting an unconventual war, targets are varied and not easily identified.
     
  7. Totally agree Trip but part of the problem is these tanks were out in the open same as the warriors that were engaged during Gulf War 1 in 1991 and in daylight so misidentification should not happen.

    We were flying british flags off our vehicles in Afghanistan in 2002 and on talking to a US aircraft I told him I was in the the vehicle flying the british flag to which he replied ''What does that look like!!''
     
  8. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    meiktilaman:

    I think you need to read what I said once again

    Did I not say that if needed or warrented a trial/courtmartial was needed? People who are proven GUILTY of screwing up should be tried by their military and/or courts.

    I'm sure the incidents in question were examined and/or investigated. If no trial was dicated, I guess that the incidents were declared an unavoidable accident.

    Keep in mind in that same period American armored units were also shot up with KIAs as well.
     
  9. Trip

    I think you need to read what i wrote!!

    I'm not out for the heads of these guys though it does seem there is no accountability in the American forces when this sort of thing happens and not even an apology from the American Government to the families of those killed.
     
  10. Trip_Wire

    Trip_Wire RIP

    I did read all your posts.

    I standby what I said in my last message.

    Perhaps the reason for no apologies are linked here.

    http://ezinearticles.com/?Never-Explain-and-Never-Apologize!&id=161340
     
  11. I watched the footage leaked by The Sun newspaper on CNN at lunchtime today (1800GMT).

    The pilot clearly identifies 'orange markings on the top of the vehicle' and then request permission to engage. The reply requests more info; 'what do they look like?' to which the pilot replies; 'orange rockets'. He is told to confirm and after acknowledging, is then given clearance.

    Also, the soldier killed is pictured as a household cavalry Staff Corporal, so I assume he would be forward recce?
     
  12. You would assume right Swampie
     
  13. Just read the other (relevant) thread.

    Just catching up, my apologies for the distraction.
     
  14. fog of war my bollocks. go and watch the video and then come back and tell me how it was fog of war. they were a pair of gung-ho cunts (36 more than 35) who were keen to get a kill. at least 5 times i heard them mention orange on top of the wagon - that should say STOP!!! to anyone up there.

    pair of assholes and they deserve to be in prison for manslaughter.
     
  15. Surely the idea of a trial is to actually find out whether they are guilty or not?

    The fact that this incident was declared an "unavoidable accident" by your investigations means nothing, was the investigation done in an open and impartial manner or was it all done in house and covered up?

    The fact that the very existence of this tape was denied for so long and then had secret stickers plastered all over it when it was discovered make any investigation suspect.

    Collateral damage (that seems to be the phrase that all the defenders of these guys seem to want use but use the coy "fog of war" etc instead) when it includes your allies is or should be investigated in the open where every one can see.