Bloody Sunday Prosecutions to follow !

Unless these posts are a figment of my imagination, yes I very clearly did. Twice:



That followed this:



You (and others) have obviously not attempted to do a search as detailed, otherwise you would have found that there are a number of references to 197 soldiers from the UDR being convicted of terrorist offences (or do a search based on that).

Read the De Silva report of the Patrick Finucaine review.

Read Cassel's articles in CAIN.

Read Lethal Allies: British Collusion in NI.

Read Getting the Message by John Eldridge.

Read RJ Weitzer on Communal Conflict and Internal Security.

http://redirecoo.com/236-zewyt.pdf
(Terrorism in Northern Ireland)

Operation Banner

January | 2016 | Belfast Child | Page 8

cain.ulst.ac.uk/publicrecords/1973/subversion-in-the-udr.hem

I can't promise the links will all work, but 'Google is your friend' with a search in this case. It really isn't news to anyone who served in the province, or at least it shouldn't be.
Edit: three links now work, all of which detail 197 UDR convicted for terrorist offences, and anyone who's used CAIN will know how to access the relevant article.



Have you served in NI or ever been in the Army?

Do you know anything at all about the UDR?

I made a simple statement of fact to show that the GFA applies to military as well as civilians, as NI terrorists include not only civilians but military. It's a fact, which I've never heard anyone in the UDR deny - it would be absurd for them to do so, or to deny that some had divided loyalties, particularly in the early stages.

It's not maligning the Army or the UDR, who had far more than their 'fair share' of soldiers killed in the troubles compared to the rest of the Army (197, by coincidence). It's simply demonstrating that soldiers weren't somehow excluded from the GFA, as some people seem to imagine.

..... and please stop referring to what "we" want. However low my opinion of some posters here may be I sincerely doubt if they want to be represented by you.

You'll be quoting Bugsy next.
 
Bandying figures eh. What was the source?
Hopefully you've found some by now.

Almost 700 soldiers killed on op banner. 93 people were convicted of murder, another 8 done on lesser charges.
That means a 13% conviction rate and 87% got away free if I was a a PIRA negotiator I'd be happy with that.
I'm not quite sure of your maths, since your figure of 13% would require that those convicted only committed / were convicted of one murder each.

Hardly important, though, as you seem to be suggesting that the number convicted for killing soldiers was below the norm which, with over 3,000 unsolved murders during the troubles, it wasn't.

If that wasn't your point, what was?

And why would the conviction rate have anything to do with 'PIRA negotiators'? That's purely down to the PSNI's ability to find evidence. Are you suggesting that this was somehow negotiated away?

Seriously?
 
Hopefully you've found some by now.



I'm not quite sure of your maths, since your figure of 13% would require that those convicted only committed / were convicted of one murder each.

Hardly important, though, as you seem to be suggesting that the number convicted for killing soldiers was below the norm which, with over 3,000 unsolved murders during the troubles, it wasn't.

If that wasn't your point, what was?

And why would the conviction rate have anything to do with 'PIRA negotiators'? That's purely down to the PSNI's ability to find evidence. Are you suggesting that this was somehow negotiated away?

Seriously?
Probes into IRA assets ‘were blocked for peace process’ - Belfast Newsletter

That article seems to suggest that the PSNI wasn't allowed to go after the Provo's for organised crime, only Loyalists were targeted.

God knows what the price of peace was.
 
Hopefully you've found some by now.



I'm not quite sure of your maths, since your figure of 13% would require that those convicted only committed / were convicted of one murder each.

Hardly important, though, as you seem to be suggesting that the number convicted for killing soldiers was below the norm which, with over 3,000 unsolved murders during the troubles, it wasn't.

If that wasn't your point, what was?

And why would the conviction rate have anything to do with 'PIRA negotiators'? That's purely down to the PSNI's ability to find evidence. Are you suggesting that this was somehow negotiated away?

Seriously?
Your life and ours would be a lot easier if you learnt how to copy n paste a link.

Secondly your assertion of 200 or so "serving soldiers" etc is demonstrably misleading. You now say they were in the UDR. At a technical level they may qualify as soldiers but to describe them in such an ambiguous way in a forum such as this is deliberate obsfucation as to the truth. As to numbers they are often bundled with "other offences" which covers a multitude of circumstances.

Finally for the avoidance of doubt the GFA certainly does not apply to the regular army on duty in NI which is the issue in this thread.
 
This really confuses me. Why should I be anyone's sock puppet and not just a new joiner ?
Well it's usually the case that people as "new" as you supposedly are, take a wee while to settle in, aren't that confident with characters and personalities on the site and generally aren't that combatative for a while at least - my hat is off to you sir, you bluffing twat
 
Secondly your assertion of 200 or so "serving soldiers" etc is demonstrably misleading. You now say they were in the UDR. At a technical level they may qualify as soldiers but to describe them in such an ambiguous way in a forum such as this is deliberate obsfucation as to the truth. As to numbers they are often bundled with.
If I understand you correctly, you are casting aspersions on the status of members of the UDR as soldiers. I, am probably others, find this offensive. You have clearly never served in the Province and know SFA about the UDR.
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Well it's usually the case that people as "new" as you supposedly are, take a wee while to settle in, aren't that confident with characters and personalities on the site and generally aren't that combatative for a while at least - my hat is off to you sir, you bluffing twat
I think he has to be a sock puppet as well. Jumped straight into several threads from the first day and seems to have a grasp of personalities. The more he posts, the more I think that he's Stonker's alter ego.
 
Last edited:
Re-posted without apparently offensive epithets:

If the GFA applies to any member of an eligible terrorist group, then how does that impact on regular English soldiers in uniform on duty ?
You seem unaware that there is no 'English Army'. The UK employs English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish from the North or South, Fijians, Grenadians, and anyone else who is eligible in what is simply called the 'Army', regardless of their nationality or ethnic origin.

If I am permitted to say so I am more than a little surprised you are unaware of this.

... soldiers on duty regular or part time are not included or referred to expressly or by implication in the GFA at all.
That is the point I have been making which, with all due respect, you do not appear to understand.

Nobody was included or excluded in the GFA by profession or nationality. Soldiers are no more included or excluded than anyone else, regardless of whether they are English, Irish, or from Mars. Everyone, regardless of nationality or profession, is included who was eligible as a member of an appropriate terrorist organisation, who committed a terrorism-related offence, between set dates. No specific inclusions or exceptions.

I suggest the Far East, senility, and the drink has clearly taken it's toll on you.
And apparently you are permitted to do so, while I am not, so I will merely say that I concur with what other posters have written.



I suggest the Far East, senility, and the drink has clearly taken it's toll on you.
 

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