Bloody Sunday Enquiry

E

error_unknown

Guest
#2
That would depend on what you are trying to acheive

1. A balanced investigation into events that happened a long time ago and require careful investigation (what the Chairman wants)

2. Laying of the blame entirely on the Army and thus delivering another sop to the murdering scum that are the new "peace loving" IRA (what the Government want)
 
V

vespa

Guest
#4
IT'S LIKE PICKING AT A OLD WOUND AND NEVER LETTING IT HEAL :roll:

surely the past needs to stay there , the IRA aren't being put under the microscope over the "dissapeared" :x :evil:
 
#5
should have been able to run a south african truth and reconcilation style commision for this instead of its the armys Fault.
Or if that was what the goverment just come out and say it then spent the leftover £113million on buying HK36s. Get upmty again and the Paras can slot even more of you next time :twisted:
Ira get moral victory
army gets a new toy that works for once
 
#6
Ask anyone down the pub the paras did it .At the end paras get shafted
Ask any Brit do you care ? either no or well done paras .It would have been cheaper to get tony to tearfully aplogise or maybe fat boy patten
he likes shafting the uk . Build them community centre and pay any one
effected compensation . than this travesty.
How many rounds did paras fire to kill 13 ? call your self an elite force :lol:
Only time i really wished to be badged para was when a 4tonner i was in drove passed hyde park at the end of troops out of ireland demmo
in 93 .If we had been wearing maroon berets there would have been serious aggro. as it was nothing happened as traffic started flowing but i dont know what was funnier .some hippies trying to get through traffic to get to us,blokes trying to get their digging tools out of a pile of bergans
the good old 58 ones or watching channel 4 trying despretly to put their camera back together cos they thought they had a riot on their hands :D
 
#7
Tribunal chairman Lord Saville said on Wednesday he had no alternative but to start the process of reporting Soldier L to the High Court for contempt, which could result in him being sent to prison.

However, Soldier L's legal team told the inquiry on Thursday that he is now much more willing to co-operate.

Funny how things change when threatened with a bit of prison!!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3119336.stm
 
E

error_unknown

Guest
#8
Just bear in mind that Soldier L has had 30+ years of this shit hanging over him...days don't start out as Bloody Sundays..it can happen to any of you.
Sooner it's all over the better for everyone.
 
#9
Quite frankly I'm pretty well****ed off with the whole Bloody Sunday thing and mainly because too few people are prepared to acknowledge what we all (in the Army) know, the Paras disgraced themselves that day. There is no room for debate, I don't give a **** if they were fired at first, the simple fact of the matter is this; not one of the people killed on that day can be proved to have been carrying a weapon of any sort. Furthermore, if the Para's were fired on, so ****ing what, that doesn't entitle them to simply blast off like a bunch of ****ing lunatics (or amateurs) at anybody in front of them. there was no excuse for what went on that day, it led directly to the deaths of hundreds of our comrades, prolonged the campaign and gave the IRA an invaluable propanganda weapon and recruiting tool for the next thirty years. We are still paying the cost today. A small number of Paras disgraced their Regiment and the whole of the British Army that day, and we would all do well to remember it.
 
#10
Blimey mate.....

But there's a lot of truth in that.

That day was a mistake but all of the terrorists have been released from prison despite murdering countless numbers. Millions haven't been spent investigating the Paras 30 years later.

the IRA aren't being put under the microscope over the "dissapeared"
Exactly. What is the point of this inquiry? Satisfy the families? how many thousands have been murdered since?

Shoot to kill? Journalistic bollocks. We operate within the rule of law or we are no better than them. We (I'm in the Army too and served inf in NI) didn't that day.
 
#11
What is all this shyte?

30 years ago we weren't as experienced or trained in this type of situation, so in that respect I'd say any whinging moaning cnut that say the Paras did bad should shut their fcking mouths. Apart from that, unless you have been on the wrong end of this type of thing since the midish eighties, again, I'd say shut your fcking mouths.

There is ample evidence that 1) The paras were fired on first. 2) Martin McGuiness, now ensconced in Westminster at our fcking expense, who was acting IRA commander in Londonderry that day(fact) fired the first shot.

This whole thing is a sop and appeasement measure by that cnut Blair to the IRA and Republicans. Not only are we paying compensation to he IRA murdering scum, not only have we let them free from prison, not only are we paying them dole money without insisting they retrain and go on New Deal, not only are we going to soon wipe their criminal records clean, we may also be paying the cnuts war pensions...I shit you not.

Bloody Sunday was a mistake, sure, a mistake made by young soldiers in a situation they and the army had never been in before.

The inquiry is a witch-hunt. The IRA and Sinn Fein have already decided who is guilty, and Blair is happy to go through the motions because at the end of the day if the result isn't EXACTLY what Sinn Fein want, then there will be demands for another inquiry.

Why are we not spending this money on finding out about every killing? Beacause the Government DON'T WANT to find out about every killing, that may result in some sticky questions for many who are now running NI, and if you are apeasing, you can't accuse someone whose balls you are licking.
 
#12
Consider that BSI (Bloody Sunday Inquiry) is just the start. Although being the most high profile, it has already been the initiator for moe than a few more so called public inquiry into other incidents that have occured.
When in the last few years all parties are saying that the people of NI should look to the future, I find it difficult to understand the obsession about the past.
As regards the cost, there are a lot of lawyers, and crown solicitors that are earning an absolute fortune. They have an office hosted by the Army, in NI. The hours that they do compared to the Military personnel alongside is laughable.

To summarise, the results of this inquiry are merely the begining. You only have to look at the Action Group that exists to uncover the truth? behind the Omagh bomb and why the Army and RUC/PSNI failed to stop it? despite only having a snippet of intel which was extremely vague
 
#13
its like the security forces were roaming around NI shooting innocent catholics for fun.
No mention of what the leadership of sein fein was up to.
Have a proper truth and reconcilliation comission or don't bother.
The security forces made mistakes sure people always do. But members of the british army did'nt get up in the morning and think lets see how many innocent people we can kill with explosives today :x
 
#14
Shot gun, I won't shut my mouth because I care far more for the reputation of the British Army and indeed the United Kingdom as as whole than I do for the Parachute Regiment. Firstly that old bollocks about experience and training, this happened in 1971, we'd been in Ulster since 1969 and 1Para had been in Belfast as Province reserve for some time before they arrived in Derry that day. This was not an inexperiencd Battalion full of untried Officers and NCO's, Support Coy. in particular had a lot of Aden veterans and 6yr private soldiers in it. Incidentally, the three units stationed in and around the city at that time, 2R.Anglian,2RGJ and I think 16AD Regt. RA, had been managing to control far larger demonstrations on a regular basis for some time without losing their cool and slaughtering all in front of them
Secondly, there is not "ample evidence" that the IRA or Martin McGuinness (and I yield to no one in my detestation of that murdering bastard) fired the first shot . There is an allegation that they/he did but that is not "ample evidence" I wish that there was such evidence.At any rate so what, if you're fired on you fire back if you can identify the enemy, if not you hold your fire and watch your arc. Again, not one of thoise killed on that day could be proved to have fired or handled a weapon or explosives. Doesn't that give you pause for thought? The City Coroner thought it did, he resigned!!

Thirdly, I served my first tour in NI in 1974 and my last in '91, 9 in total and all "on the ground", I think I've earned the right to voice my criticisms and opinions on this subject. On joining my unit after Junior Service I found myself in a platoon which contained a number of people who had been present on Bloody Sunday. Unsurprisingly they were not overly sympathetic to those killed but not one of them ever suggested to me in the course of numerous booze - fuelled conversations that the Para's were fired upon first. Yes the Bloody Sunday enquiry is a disgrace and typical of this useless, cynical, lying Government . But at the end of the day 13 innocent British Subjects are dead, shot by British soldiers for no apparent reason (certainly no reason that would be justified under the Yellow Card, then or now). If that hadn't happened there would be no enquiry, would there?
 
#15
Jaeger said:
.......not an inexperiencd Battalion full of untried Officers and NCO's, Support Coy. in particular had a lot of Aden veterans and 6yr private soldiers in it. .....
A large part of the problem, I think. The concept of 'hearts and minds' had yet to filter through to people whose first priority was living up to the doctrines embedded in airborne infantry training, and which were successful (to a debatable extent) in the end-of-empire skirmishes in lands where the people were non-reflective. Some of them obviously learned to cope with the differences between Aden and Belfast (POD, I hope) but even as late as the late 80s and early 90s, some were behaving as though they were in Baghdad (1929). I recall a couple of LtCols.......
 
#16
There are some valid points made by several posters here.

I served in 1 Para from 83-90 and there were still a few SNCO's about who were there that day. No one really talked about it as it was seen as something that happened a long time ago even then, one things for sure no one blamed them for what happened, I would stand by each man 100% whether he fired or not.

Jaeger said:
there was no excuse for what went on that day, it led directly to the deaths of hundreds of our comrades, prolonged the campaign and gave the IRA an invaluable propanganda weapon and recruiting tool for the next thirty years. We are still paying the cost today. A small number of Paras disgraced their Regiment and the whole of the British Army that day, and we would all do well to remember it.
I don't know if there is an excuse for how individuals acted that day can any of us honestly say that in the same circumstances we would not have fired. As for prolonging the campaign and/or directly leading to the deaths of more soldiers I find this a fairly bold statement to make. I don't believe the troubles would have stopped or reduced in intensity if Bloody Sunday had not happened because of the type of people we were fighting, I accept it gave the IRA a propaganda coup without a doubt.

If it hadnt happened do we really think that the peace process would have started any sooner than it did, I'm not conveinced it would have.

Whether we agree with the BSI or not the fact is that there will be an outcome. The findings may well lead to criminal proceedings against the men involved, will this satisfy the republican movement or the families of those killed, I doubt it.
 
#17
I refuse to get into this with you Jaeger for a couple of reasons. First, I've served there on the border and streets, and if you have nine times, you vertainly don't seem to have had the same experiences a me when it comes down to how provos can manipulate a situation to their advantage.

Secondly, you said;
But at the end of the day 13 innocent British Subjects are dead, shot by British soldiers for no apparent reason (certainly no reason that would be justified under the Yellow Card, then or now).
Well, I support the ctions as a mistake, IF it happened as you say, but YOU, on the other hand, have the Paras and the Army there that day GUILTY AS CHARGED. The inquiry hasn't decided they were all innocent, the inquiry hasn't decided there was no apparent reason, and the paras haven't been found guilty of anything,despite hundred odd million quid, but you have. I'd say you should in those circumstances keep your fcking mouth shut and either wait for the outcome of the inquiry, or listen to other views of people that have really been there. I've been there when a man in a crowd was shot, but the inquiry heard that he was shot in the BACK, and the shot couldn't have come from the soldiers in front; that's just one example.

The Paras as such don't particularly have my love, but if you think there was only three units on the ground, as you quote, you should go into more detailed research through the net.

BTW: There is ample evidence that Macguiness DID fire the first shot, given by republican supporting journalists who blame him for the whole thing.

Say what you like now, couldn't care less, and read into that lot what you will, as I hope others will.
 
#18
I have absolutely no intention of keeping my ****ing mouth shut and I assure you I have completed 9 tours in Ulster, both on the Border and in in the Towns and Cities, beginning as a private soldier and finishing a senior NCO, I think I know what I'm talking about. I am well aware of how slick the Provo's are at PR and propaganda. the IRA in the 1920's were equally slick and professional at it. I would suggest however that little media manipulation is required when you have 13 dead civilians, no recovered weapons, no identified firing points,no SF casualties, dubious,and on occasion, downright laughable statements from the soldiers themselves as to their conduct that day and finally (for the last ****ing time please) not a shred of evidence that any of the dead had fired a weapon or handled explosives . As if all this was not enough , the CSM of Support Company 1 PARA , present on the day in question admitted that he believed a small number of individuals within the company had fired without justification (and by definition, illegally!) that day. He made this statement on television when interviewed by Peter Taylor, I saw it myself as did millions of others. Finally, I did not say that only three units were present that day, I was merely referring to the the units who I believe were permanently based in the area at the time.I suggest Shotgun, that you read carefully in future before you start spitting fur and feathers, a little cool and considered thought might be wise.
 
#19
I assure you I have completed 9 tours in Ulster, both on the Border and in in the Towns and Cities,
Well it must be true then eh?

We should send you over there to be executioner as you've decided haven't you? No shred of evidence? So fcking what? What shred of evidence after four years is there of anything?

I would suggest however that little media manipulation is required when you have 13 dead civilians
And how many IRA men do you know who were serving soldiers and anything but civilians? You seem to have little or no knowledge of what constitutes civilians in NI over the past 30 years. Heere's a really well kept secret for you, the provos never came out for a fight soldier style and usually wore civvies except while operating on the border. What a fcking revelation eh?

Finally, I did not say that only three units were present that day, I was merely referring to the the units who I believe were permanently based in the area at the time.I suggest Shotgun
Meerely pointing out? What was the point of this and what relevance does it have in the context of this discussion then? As I said, if you knew anything about NI, you'd know how irrelevant this statement is.

I haven't spat feathers and haven't lost my cool; why should I? Unless of course it based on your irrational and hysterical rantings of how the Paras on that day are guilty? You the judge, jury and executioner have made the pronouncement before the inquiry has even finished?

a little cool and considered thought might be wise
Why's that then? You gonna take a contract out on me? Send some of the boys over on the next ferry?

Your attitude is sickening here, you have the men in jail and guilty already and won't take any other view. In your mind there is no extenuating circumstances; and that is why I believe you've never been there, or maybe in somewhere like Drummad as a cook or something. I don't know whether they are guilty of murder or not, but I do know that it isn't as simple as you try and make out, if it was it would be a relatively regular occurence and not the single incident it was. You also choose not to try and quantify it against other alleged atrocities.

When the likes of MacGuiness calls for an inquiry into at least some of the murders the provos committed, instead of demanding a pension for them and that their criminal records be wiped clean, I might start to take the view that the men of the Paras be investigated for manslaughter, but as it is, this is selective and an affront to all soldiers.

Now try Google again and see if you can come up with something better.
 
#20
The Bloody Sunday Enquiry is an excellent idea and will do much to lay The Troubles to rest, ON CONDITION that we have full and independant enquiries, with complete co-operation from ALL sides (that includes YOU McGuinness) on the following:

1. The Omagh Bombing.

2. The Enniskillen (excuse spelling) Remembrance Day bombing.

3. The murder of three Australian tourists in Holland in the 90s (exact year not remembered).

4. The Baltic Quay Bombing (how does killing a London based newsagent of Pakistani descent advance the cause of Irish 'freedom' ONE LITTLE BIT?).

5. The brutal murder in the early years of The Troubles of a CATHOLIC mother of, I think, 8 whose only crime was to comfort a dying British Soldier. (Incidentally, they've only just recovered her body in the last few weeks. Now THAT'S sensitive).

6. All the other occasions where innocent civilians who had done nothing to deserve death (even by the often perverse logic of Irish Nationalism) were killed anyway, often in the most brutal and painful manner.

I haven't even begun to get onto the subject of the killing of numerous British Servicemen and RUC men. Please excuse me, I'm not some rabid anti-Republican, but you can't go demanding POW status and claiming that you are fighting a war one minute and then switch to being a bunch of poor oppressed indigenous people the next.

Rant over.
 
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