Bloodier than Stalingrad, the victory that Russia kept quiet

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by jonwilly, Mar 12, 2006.

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  1. Hype. Not a new story. His success is a friendly reviewer. Wonder if they are related?
     
  2. Quiet? Moscows' battle maybe not well known in the West. From my childhood I know that it was a turning point (at least on Eastern front). By the way my grandfather took part in the battle. He a cavalryman, peasant from remote Siberian village was in division of general Dovator and was badly wounded. Later my grandfather was killed in the Stalingrad battle.

    Marshall Zhukov said that Moscow's battle was his main battle. Now military historians accuse him in many mistakes. Zhukov believed that he could continue offensive and many thousands of Soviet soldiers were killed in attempts to capture Rzhev fortified area. Germans remained too strong and Zhukov wasted resources and human lives in vain.
     
  3. stalingrad gets more press because it lasted so long not because it was the bloodiest battle
     
  4. I don't think it's appreciated just how close the Germans got to Moscow. Didn't the lead elements get as far as a main line Tram terminus?
     
  5. I think that they got as far as Khimki, about 20k north of the Kremlin on Leningradskiy Shosse (today there is the "tank trap" memorial at the spot - oh, and an IKEA.....). There may have been another "closest point" to the south-west by about the same distance (the actual points were probably covered up by Soviet propaganda, as there appears to be no firm evidence today). Contrary to popular myth, you can't see the spires of the Kremlin from either of these locations, as central Moscow is in a "bowl" of low ground astride the Moscow River. There are, however, dozens of other church spires and grand buildings further out which may have been glimpsed by the German recce and misreported as "the spires of the Kremlin".