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Blood borders

#2
interesting. anyone read the seven pillars of wisdom by T E Lawrence? (Laurence of Arabia) in a nutshell the Allies needed the Arab tribes to assist them secure the middle east in the war against the turks. the price for this was the promise of a unified arab state free from western influcence (we still had the empire then and France was after a share as well). Using gold, weapons and a shed load of tack and deplomacy (and riding around on a camel wearing a dish dash) Laurence was able to assist Fiesal unite the various tribes who had mega gripes with each other (think NI sectarianism but 1000 times worse) against the common enemy. anyway, we had no intention of keeping the promises made. instead we ended up with the the distribution of the ottoman empire under the jurisdiction of the league of nations (even less usefull than the UN). This lead to the creation of Iran (was persia), iraq (mesopotamia), syria etc etc. so it is possible to say that the root cause of the current conflict in the middle east is to do with the colonial aspirations of the western powers following the collapse of the ottoman empire and the defeat of Germany in 1918.

or is this bollox?
 
#3
Enigma_Bleep said:
interesting. anyone read the seven pillars of wisdom by T E Lawrence? (Laurence of Arabia) in a nutshell the Allies needed the Arab tribes to assist them secure the middle east in the war against the turks. the price for this was the promise of a unified arab state free from western influcence (we still had the empire then and France was after a share as well). Using gold, weapons and a shed load of tack and deplomacy (and riding around on a camel wearing a dish dash) Laurence was able to assist Fiesal unite the various tribes who had mega gripes with each other (think NI sectarianism but 1000 times worse) against the common enemy. anyway, we had no intention of keeping the promises made. instead we ended up with the the distribution of the ottoman empire under the jurisdiction of the league of nations (even less usefull than the UN). This lead to the creation of Iran (was persia), iraq (mesopotamia), syria etc etc. so it is possible to say that the root cause of the current conflict in the middle east is to do with the colonial aspirations of the western powers following the collapse of the ottoman empire and the defeat of Germany in 1918.

or is this bollox?
Don't forget we kept the promise to Feisal and his family got Saudi for their assistance. Regarding the other countries further north around Egypt and leading up to Turkey it was felt a vaccume would ensue following the fall of the Ottomans which is why the mandate was introduced as a lead in to self-government. That was the original intention anyway! :wink:
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#4
intli said:
Don't forget we kept the promise to Feisal and his family got Saudi for their assistance. Regarding the other countries further north around Egypt and leading up to Turkey it was felt a vaccume would ensue following the fall of the Ottomans which is why the mandate was introduced as a lead in to self-government. That was the original intention anyway! :wink:
Errr, Ibn Saud got 'Saudi': the Hashemites had to make do with Iraq and Transjordan.
 
#5
cpunk said:
intli said:
Don't forget we kept the promise to Feisal and his family got Saudi for their assistance. Regarding the other countries further north around Egypt and leading up to Turkey it was felt a vaccume would ensue following the fall of the Ottomans which is why the mandate was introduced as a lead in to self-government. That was the original intention anyway! :wink:
Errr, Ibn Saud got 'Saudi': the Hashemites had to make do with Iraq and Transjordan.
Well done! Thinking back to Lawrence of Arabia with Alec Guinness playing Feisal I thought they gave him Saudi! As you have pointed out though, the leadership of the countries was awarded to the dominant figures in the areas concerned at the time, not necessarily the best way forward, but one that was standard diplomacy (plus they had to be pro-British) :wink:
 

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