Blokey companies

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Deleted 136127

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As an example, our kid corrected a cover letter I wrote:

Dear Sir/Madam => Dear Hiring Manager

The first is straight in the bin, whereas the second (dumb sounding) version is what is expected. FFS.

I started mine with 'Insight Summary' then wrote a short sales pitch.

What I am finding really depressing is the drop down selection menu at the end of every application

Age
Ethnicity
Beliefs
Sexuality
Relationship status

When I fill it in, the signal it sends to me an an applicant is 'White male over 50 years old shouldn't waste their time applying'. The one I've just done is the worst yet.

Its is a complete and utter fcuking disgrace. As you can tell, I am pretty angry about this, so am having a shout on the hinternet.
 
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Deleted 15653

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Possibly but the main thing I picked up from the opening post was how much job specs are linked to protected characteristics, diversity box ticking etc. That's not an issue with Physics teacher recruitment which essentially requires the right qualifications, a clean DBS check and a pulse. Being able to actually teach is optional.
I recall the hoo hah a few years ago when a chap who had taught physics at a top Public School retired and offered to teach at his local comp. Despite 40 years experience, he was initially prevented from doing so because he hadn't got any recognised physics qualifications. Thankfully common sense prevailed and he was able to teach.
 
I recall the hoo hah a few years ago when a chap who had taught physics at a top Public School retired and offered to teach at his local comp. Despite 40 years experience, he was initially prevented from doing so because he hadn't got any recognised physics qualifications. Thankfully common sense prevailed and he was able to teach.

I suspect there was a bit of "ideology" behind this.
 
It's pretty hard to avoid some degree of 'wokeism' but my advice would be to look at primary industries (e.g. energy) and/or being part of a profit centre/driver of business for an organisation where there is a financial bottom line to keep everyone honest (i.e. not the public sector) and where they can't afford to lose you simply because you like Bernard Manning.

The big problem in this country is that we've created massive public sector sanctuaries for intemperate loonies and we now have a large service sector which is very vulnerable to social media pitchfork mobs destroying their client base and thus tends to be oversensitive to that threat. Primary industries tend to be a bit more robust, although even the oil and gas industry persists in having endless conferences about empowering women who, if they're in the oil and gas industry, are generally more than capable of empowering themselves.
on the other hand there are areas like primary school teacher or qualitative/social research which are extremely female dominated and where just being a straight man actually hits the diversity quotas....
 
I suspect there was a bit of "ideology" behind this.
Probably not. State schools used to require teachers to hold Qualified Teacher Status (QTS) and have completed a probationary year in a state school as a Newly Qualified Teacher (NQT).

It certainly used to be the case that people would qualify with QTS and then go and teach in a private school, sixth form college etc. and not do their NQT year straight away. The issue being that if it wasn't done within 5 years of gaining QTS then you weren't allowed to do the NQT later and were effectively blocked for life from teaching in state secondaries.

Couple that with private schools not needing any qualifications and it is entirely possible the bloke Devex mentioned was an excellent teacher but didn't have the relevant paperwork. Couple that with HR admin drone following tickbox policy at the comp and a rejection would be automatic.

The rules for secondaries have changed and if a school has become an academy they are free to hire whoever they want but most have kept the requirement for QTS. Unless they are a training school and taking people on as SCITTs, PGCE placements, whatever the GTP programme is called this week etc. but that's a different kettle of fish.

Edit - besides, as I pointed out above if you are a competent Physics teacher you can basically walk into a job and have guaranteed job security for the rest of your working life.
 
I recall the hoo hah a few years ago when a chap who had taught physics at a top Public School retired and offered to teach at his local comp. Despite 40 years experience, he was initially prevented from doing so because he hadn't got any recognised physics qualifications. Thankfully common sense prevailed and he was able to teach.

I used to teach commercial and ATP subjects at a mate's flying school until the regs changed and you had to be a licenced instructor to do so.

The situation they have now is a bunch of low time instructors who have no experience of actual real world aviation and no real interest as they're building hours for airline slots, trying to teach students. Meanwhile someone who's been around the block a few times and carries old school practical knowledge (and rule of thumb dodges) is regarded as unable to do the job because I can't be arsed writing an exam and jumping through the hoops then dealing with the boredom of trying to patter some dimbulb instructor for 25 hours at ridiculous cost.
 

Hairy-boab

Old-Salt
So, one top tip I have discovered. If you want an impression of a company, look up their staff on LinkedIn. Combat indicator #1: An outbreak of pronouns in their profiles.
 
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I've just spoken to my lad who is 30 and looking for a new job - he's a software developer, so his skills should be in demand. He keeps getting down to last three and is now of the view he is losing out to ethnic minorities and women. He's getting a very strong steer from recruiters that he's the wrong colour and wrong sex - its dressed up as 'diversity is a recruitment priority', so its not being called out for what it is which is discrimination. He's pretty disillusioned with the whole thing.
 

Hairy-boab

Old-Salt
I've just spoken to my lad who is 30 and looking for a new job - he's a software developer, so his skills should be in demand. He keeps getting down to last three and is now of the view he is losing out to ethnic minorities and women. He's getting a very strong steer from recruiters that he's the wrong colour and wrong sex - its dressed up as 'diversity is a recruitment priority', so its not being called out for what it is which is discrimination. He's pretty disillusioned with the whole thing.
This can’t last. There was a story in the papers today about a graduate banker who successfully sued her employer due to banter, and their refusal to reduce her working hours below 40-45/week.

At some point the higher ups (male/female/whatever) will need to put a lid on all this crap to get the jobs done. Performance matters, and that means choosing candidates with the best track record.

Too late for me probably though- my careers fucked just when I need it most to support family etc.

Edit: it’s not just money of course. Men need meaningful work for their mental health. Many of us are being forced out of jobs that we are good at and enjoy doing.
 

olafthered

LE
Book Reviewer
I started mine with 'Insight Summary' then wrote a short sales pitch.

What I am finding really depressing is the drop down selection menu at the end of every application

Age
Ethnicity
Beliefs
Sexuality
Relationship status

When I fill it in, the signal it sends to me an an applicant is 'White male over 50 years old shouldn't waste their time applying'. The one I've just done is the worst yet.

Its is a complete and utter fcuking disgrace. As you can tell, I am pretty angry about this, so am having a shout on the hinternet.
As soon as they ask for age and link it to the application (rather than as a separate monitoring form), you have a case for age discrimination.
 
I've just spoken to my lad who is 30 and looking for a new job - he's a software developer, so his skills should be in demand. He keeps getting down to last three and is now of the view he is losing out to ethnic minorities and women. He's getting a very strong steer from recruiters that he's the wrong colour and wrong sex - its dressed up as 'diversity is a recruitment priority', so its not being called out for what it is which is discrimination. He's pretty disillusioned with the whole thing.
See PM.
 
Edit: it’s not just money of course. Men need meaningful work for their mental health.
Speak for yourself.

It's the requirement to work, earn money (and interact politely with people I don't like) that is detrimental to my mental health.

ETA: Modern working environments e.g. open space offices and toxic management and HR cultures really do impact on employee mental health. Most of it is entirely avoidable.
 
As soon as they ask for age and link it to the application (rather than as a separate monitoring form), you have a case for age discrimination.
Not just age:
characteristics that the Equality Act protects
age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation.

To be fair though, when it comes to disability, the potential employer has to make reasonable adjustments. I know the Civil Service get around this by offering a disabled applicant the guaranteed interview scheme.
 
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Deleted 136127

Guest
As soon as they ask for age and link it to the application (rather than as a separate monitoring form), you have a case for age discrimination.

Therein lines the problem. The way in which I'm seeing the info captured isn't linked to any specific job application - its captured when you register on the jobs section of the web site and create an account with the company that is recruiting. They are capturing 'diversity data', so you can never prove on what basis you have been rejected.
 

Hairy-boab

Old-Salt
Speak for yourself.

It's the requirement to work, earn money (and interact politely with people I don't like) that is detrimental to my mental health.
Sorry, maybe that came across wrong. Of course money is the base of it all, I just mean that I stopped caring about climbing up the career pole just to make more than I need to survive in a fairly modest manner.

Agree about the people problem too.
 
Not got one?
I may have biffed it.
I started a chat with you, but have now started a conversation.
No idea what the difference is.
 
I don't have a link and I'm relying on (possibly confused) memory here. The French had/have a system where personal details on CVs are masked and each CV has a serial number. All that an employer sees is the qualifications and professional experience.

The system was introduced because CVs belonging to people with non-French surnames were going straight in the bin. Immigrants and their descendants weren't even getting interviews.

Possibly we need a similar system in the UK. Given modern IT systems, it should be easy to mask age, gender and race on CVs. It might help to an extent.
 

Hairy-boab

Old-Salt
I don't have a link and I'm relying on (possibly confused) memory here. The French had/have a system where personal details on CVs are masked and each CV has a serial number. All that an employer sees is the qualifications and professional experience.

The system was introduced because CVs belonging to people with non-French surnames were going straight in the bin. Immigrants and their descendants weren't even getting interviews.

Possibly we need a similar system in the UK. Given modern IT systems, it should be easy to mask age, gender and race on CVs. It might help to an extent.
They bloody don't where I've worked in France. I've personally seen a pre-screen into a pile of 'hot' female applicants and a pile of 'other'. Photos on CVs are usually expected on the continent.

I also once asked a boss what a new staff member was like (the hiring decision had just been made). The answer was one word....

...."unfuckable!"

So, yeah, bad stuff exists out there. The UK actually leads the world in dealing with this sort of discrimination, although you wouldn't know it from the current climate.
 
They bloody don't where I've worked in France. I've personally seen a pre-screen into a pile of 'hot' female applicants and a pile of 'other'. Photos on CVs are usually expected on the continent.

I also once asked a boss what a new staff member was like (the hiring decision had just been made). The answer was one word....

...."unfuckable!"

So, yeah, bad stuff exists out there. The UK actually leads the world in dealing with this sort of discrimination, although you wouldn't know it from the current climate.
It may have been for government departments or the civil service. Or my memory may be playing me false.
 
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