Bloke on the Range videos

 
Factory new, unfired condition. Happy boy am I! :D

1590490528405.png
 
Following your discussion, the SMG up until early 1992 was the standard weapon issued to all non-aircrew and non Regiment officers and warrant officers in the RAF (although I think RAF Regiment officers probably carried this as their sidearm as well). I last qual'd on it in November 1991 and converted to the L85 in May 1992. Aircrew were trained on a variety of pistols depending on their role, and helicopter crews had L9A1 pistols and HK-53s in Northern Ireland.

The RAF deployed a lot of SMGs to support personnel deployed to the Gulf (eg drivers, logisticians, techhies) during OP GRANBY. However, I doubt any were ever fired in anger.
 
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Geezus stoatie, you won't need a gun safe anymore - more like an armoury!
I was planning on building a small one in the basement, but it would have cost me Fr. 18,000.- which was rather too rich for my blood...
 
Ages ago ISTR someone on this thread said something about SMG bolts having some funny features on the front of the breech block. Can't remember who - possibly @OldAdam (who I've not seen in person for quite a while now...)

Anyway, we're now in a position to look at the front of a Sterling bolt, so here's a piccy

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The anti-wrong-reassembly spring loaded plunger up the rear end of the breech block is quite clever though!

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itchy300

Old-Salt
Lovely looking weapon (ooo matron) but what is the point of the SMG? I joined long after it was retired so everyone got the IW or crow cannon if you'd been naughty.

WW2 era I understand, you replace the section commander's rifle with the STEN to give close range volume of fire in the assault. The logistic implications of 2 types of ammunition at section level are worth taking the hit for the increased effect.

But by the time the rifle that shall not be named has been adopted everyone has the ability to deliver rapid fire at close range from a rifle that's not particularly heavy or unwieldy (from my limited experience with a FAL)

what I asking I suppose is not who got the weapon (covered elsewhere) but why the weapon was a thing. Purely because it's smaller/lighter? Cheers gents
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
what I asking I suppose is not who got the weapon (covered elsewhere) but why the weapon was a thing. Purely because it's smaller/lighter? Cheers gents
Because Bill Slim decided that the Rifle No9 was to be semi only
 
Because Bill Slim decided that the Rifle No9 was to be semi only
That was select fire and would have replaced both No. 4 and STEN. They were likely to have acquired a small number of Madsen M50's for drivers etc.

@itchy300 It seems to have been quite unit-dependent, but issued for drivers and people embuggered with other things like Carl Gustavs, radios and stuff. It's a lot smaller and lighter than an SLR!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
That was select fire and would have replaced both No. 4 and STEN. They were likely to have acquired a small number of Madsen M50's for drivers etc.

@itchy300 It seems to have been quite unit-dependent, but issued for drivers and people embuggered with other things like Carl Gustavs, radios and stuff. It's a lot smaller and lighter than an SLR!
When Bill Slim became CIGS he attended a trial at Bisley with WSC to watch the rifle No9 before a final decision was made on adoption or abandonment and on watching the full auto being used declared it was wasteful which committed us to an SMG for another 50 years
 
When Bill Slim became CIGS he attended a trial at Bisley with WSC to watch the rifle No9 before a final decision was made on adoption or abandonment and on watching the full auto being used declared it was wasteful which committed us to an SMG for another 50 years
Interesting. Matt Moss's take in his book on the Sterling didn't mention that.
 

itchy300

Old-Salt
Interesting stuff, I didn't think one person could over ride years of research and development like that.

So AIUI the SMG is a result of the withdrawal of the no9, followed by the introduction of the rifle that can load itself and the need for something small. And from the previous thread they were just dished out as required.

Interesting time ref small arms I've just delivered a lecture to the battalion looking at the mau mau uprising and the range of small arms is incredible, I have a picture of a patrol with no5s, SMG or Sten, FAL with no flash eliminator and charger guide on the top cover and a bren slightly off camera. 6 guys with 5 different weapons! Nearly as bad as now.

I would ask about the performance of the SMG but I've got a feeling if I'm patient something may pop up on YouTube
 
Interesting stuff, I didn't think one person could over ride years of research and development like that.

So AIUI the SMG is a result of the withdrawal of the no9, followed by the introduction of the rifle that can load itself and the need for something small. And from the previous thread they were just dished out as required.

Interesting time ref small arms I've just delivered a lecture to the battalion looking at the mau mau uprising and the range of small arms is incredible, I have a picture of a patrol with no5s, SMG or Sten, FAL with no flash eliminator and charger guide on the top cover and a bren slightly off camera. 6 guys with 5 different weapons! Nearly as bad as now.

I would ask about the performance of the SMG but I've got a feeling if I'm patient something may pop up on YouTube
They shoot really well, to be honest. Not quite as stable as a Mk.5 STEN, but they're quite a bit lighter, and the mags are way better.

$5+ Patrons already have access to my first vid on the topic ;)
 
I never understood the hate for the SMG. Reasonably accurate, very reliable and contrary to myth and legend would really make your eyes water if you took a round from it. (somewhere on YouTube, is a Japanese video of one being fired at a pile of sandbags, which it promptly chews to pieces)
Pretty much ideal for the purpose it was issued to fulfill.
It's real problem was it wasn't ally/sexy in comparison with the Uzi and MP 5.
 

itchy300

Old-Salt
$5+ Patrons already have access to my first vid on the topic ;)
In my best Yorkshire warcry 'HOW MUCH!'

In seriousness I stopped paying my licence fee 5-6 years ago and I'm thinking about dividing up what that costs now between my favourite channels. The projects are interesting and covering new ground and the production value is approaching professional levels.

As a few of the channels (all the usual suspects) have been having trouble with YouTube, the algorithm, monetisation etc and have been branching to other platforms is there any discussion about moving to a single centralised platform that can generate ad revenue, maybe some content behind a paywall? Essentially an interactive online gun mag from the good old days
 
In my best Yorkshire warcry 'HOW MUCH!'

In seriousness I stopped paying my licence fee 5-6 years ago and I'm thinking about dividing up what that costs now between my favourite channels. The projects are interesting and covering new ground and the production value is approaching professional levels.

As a few of the channels (all the usual suspects) have been having trouble with YouTube, the algorithm, monetisation etc and have been branching to other platforms is there any discussion about moving to a single centralised platform that can generate ad revenue, maybe some content behind a paywall? Essentially an interactive online gun mag from the good old days
Been tried, doesn't work, I'm on it, and the fact that you haven't heard of it shows it doesn't work! :D

The issue is that YT is almost a monopoly, with 95% of the internet video eyes-on.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
I joined the Army in 85, and my first posting as an armourer was to Depot Queens Div in Bassingbourn in 86. At that point, there were nearly as many SMGs in the armoury as there were Rifles (1200 SMGs, 1400 Rifles IIRC). My personal weapon was the SMG, and being a keen young Craftsman I often volunteered or was voluntold to conduct the range tests on repaired weapons. I could easily get hits on fig 12 targets at 150m (the max length of the baffled range on the airfield at Bassingbourn) with the SMG; over two years I fired hundreds of 25-30 year old Sterlings, and I don't remember ever having a stoppage that wasn't caused by damaged mag lips, damaged ejectors or ammo (mainly ammo).

As far as I am aware, the fabled British Squaddies' antipathy toward the Sterling was an accumulation of various mistruths and mistaken identities, along with the oft referenced "Indian Ammo". Partly thanks to old wives' tales told about the Sten (and in one case, the Thompson), it garnered a NAAFI bar reputation as unsafe ("if you drop it it'll fire off the whole mag" - Sten), cheap ("It only cost £X to make" - Sten), unreliable ("the mags are crap" - Sten), plus "it always misfires" - Indian Ammo/Sten mags), inaccurate ("No one can hit anything" - early Stens?), and underpowered ("A wet blanket will stop the bullets" - Thompson, but possibly Indian Ammo as well).

By the late 80s, a big part of the SMG hate was snobbery that it was seen as a Remf's gun; if the chefs and spanner ******* got it issued it must be crap, and how could steely eyed infanteers be expected to use it? Rambo never used one, so the Blankshires and Loamshires should be issued Uzis forthwith and leave the old fashioned looking Sterlings to the attached arms.

I was posted to an Infantry Bn in 88, which was already kitted out with SA80, and we promptly went off to NI. Sterlings were issued for drivers (along with an 8 shot folding stock Remington Wingmaster for the escort!), with 10 round mags - a local mod I was dicked with producing prior to the tour. Once again, test firing with the diddy mags I experienced no stoppages at all.

As for the oft repeated "wet blanket" line about stopping power, my response was always the same: "Fair enough, you hold the blanket, I'll have the SMG". I read (somewhere) that this trope originated with the .45" Thompson SMG, where a wet blanket hanging loosely from a line sometimes could stop the slower moving bullets by absorbing the KE, but to be honest I don't give it much credit. Back to 9mm, a lot of confidence was lost with the 70s purchase of Indian 9mm, but by the 80s, I believe it was removed from stock. The NAAFI bar knitting circle still held on to the line that an SMG would either explode or the barrel would fill with spent bullets. Strangely the exact same 9mm ammo was considered to be a man stopper when fired from the much more tacticool L9A1 Browning pistol

The Sterling SMG was a robust, reliable and effective weapon which apart from being a cam net magnet was ideal as a personal weapon for support troops, crew served weapon operators, signallers, commanders and the like. The magazines were excellent (if heavy), the folding stock was rigid in place and folded neatly out of the way, the change lever was simple and well situated, and the trigger mech was bullet proof. In full auto it was easily controllable, and on Rounds you could get surprisingly accurate results for an open bolt weapon (with practice).
 
I joined the Army in 85, and my first posting as an armourer was to Depot Queens Div in Bassingbourn in 86. At that point, there were nearly as many SMGs in the armoury as there were Rifles (1200 SMGs, 1400 Rifles IIRC). My personal weapon was the SMG, and being a keen young Craftsman I often volunteered or was voluntold to conduct the range tests on repaired weapons. I could easily get hits on fig 12 targets at 150m (the max length of the baffled range on the airfield at Bassingbourn) with the SMG; over two years I fired hundreds of 25-30 year old Sterlings, and I don't remember ever having a stoppage that wasn't caused by damaged mag lips, damaged ejectors or ammo (mainly ammo).

As far as I am aware, the fabled British Squaddies' antipathy toward the Sterling was an accumulation of various mistruths and mistaken identities, along with the oft referenced "Indian Ammo". Partly thanks to old wives' tales told about the Sten (and in one case, the Thompson), it garnered a NAAFI bar reputation as unsafe ("if you drop it it'll fire off the whole mag" - Sten), cheap ("It only cost £X to make" - Sten), unreliable ("the mags are crap" - Sten), plus "it always misfires" - Indian Ammo/Sten mags), inaccurate ("No one can hit anything" - early Stens?), and underpowered ("A wet blanket will stop the bullets" - Thompson, but possibly Indian Ammo as well).

By the late 80s, a big part of the SMG hate was snobbery that it was seen as a Remf's gun; if the chefs and spanner ******* got it issued it must be crap, and how could steely eyed infanteers be expected to use it? Rambo never used one, so the Blankshires and Loamshires should be issued Uzis forthwith and leave the old fashioned looking Sterlings to the attached arms.

I was posted to an Infantry Bn in 88, which was already kitted out with SA80, and we promptly went off to NI. Sterlings were issued for drivers (along with an 8 shot folding stock Remington Wingmaster for the escort!), with 10 round mags - a local mod I was dicked with producing prior to the tour. Once again, test firing with the diddy mags I experienced no stoppages at all.

As for the oft repeated "wet blanket" line about stopping power, my response was always the same: "Fair enough, you hold the blanket, I'll have the SMG". I read (somewhere) that this trope originated with the .45" Thompson SMG, where a wet blanket hanging loosely from a line sometimes could stop the slower moving bullets by absorbing the KE, but to be honest I don't give it much credit. Back to 9mm, a lot of confidence was lost with the 70s purchase of Indian 9mm, but by the 80s, I believe it was removed from stock. The NAAFI bar knitting circle still held on to the line that an SMG would either explode or the barrel would fill with spent bullets. Strangely the exact same 9mm ammo was considered to be a man stopper when fired from the much more tacticool L9A1 Browning pistol

The Sterling SMG was a robust, reliable and effective weapon which apart from being a cam net magnet was ideal as a personal weapon for support troops, crew served weapon operators, signallers, commanders and the like. The magazines were excellent (if heavy), the folding stock was rigid in place and folded neatly out of the way, the change lever was simple and well situated, and the trigger mech was bullet proof. In full auto it was easily controllable, and on Rounds you could get surprisingly accurate results for an open bolt weapon (with practice).
Them Startroopers in Star Wars were fans as well.
 

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