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Blimey that was a speedy response

#2
And here's the kicker…

"…All the lessons learned will be incorporated into the final specifications and requirements when the MOD looks for firms to build the Force Protection Craft.
The first Force Protection Craft is planned to arrive at Instow in 2015 with front-line assault squadrons getting their hands on it from around 2017.…"


Anyone wanna bet how much 'our' version of the cheap and proven CB90 will cost and how late it will be?
 

udipur

LE
Book Reviewer
#3
I've seen these puppies at play in Scandinavia - ugly enough to be noticed, fast enough to be respected.

If we get them, there will be a lot of fun to be had.
 
#4
Seems a slight waste of resources. It's top speed is 45k and carries 18 Booties. I heard a story (correct me if I'm wrong) that a T21 or T22, on receiving orders to "Proceed South" in Apr 1982, gained steam alongside Devonport and threaded The Bridges at 40k with a full compliment of 245.

PS "The Bridges" are a narrows between Devonport and Plymouth Sound, about the width of two small yachts and with normal navigation limited to 5 knots. If anything had been coming the other way, it wasn't reported.
 
#6
I suspect it wasn't a T22 through the Bridges.
Probably a 21, proper speedy little things. I recall a picture doing the rounds back about then of one leaving a harbour going like the absolute clappers towing a bloke on water skis.


Anyway, there needs to be a proper conversation about our Surface Manoeuvre capability, but I doubt it will happen. And yes, we won't buy a CB90, or SOC-R Boat (Special Operations Craft-Riverine (SOC-R)) or anything of the shelf; we will instead waste money on a "UK Plc" option.....


Cynic!

<MOD mode on> "…This unique UK design has the potential to be a great export sucess and bring umpteen hundred jobs to (add consituency) and provide the (add service) with a world beating capability…" < MOD mode off >
 
#7
Ah, something dangerous - lets give it to Royal.


And again the Warfare branch take another little step back from doing anything remotely 'hands on'.


Actually, can we not bring back the MGB's? ;) I'm sure there's one running around the south coast somewhere
 
#9
Well it is the Corps Role....
Ship to Objective Manoeuvre is a Corps Role - "Force Protection" sounds remarkably like a RN job. Because honestly, being able to march 30 miles in 8 hours (or 7) has fuck all to do with your ability on the water. I would have more sympathy for this if the Corps took the LC Branch seriously, but the continual exposure to HERRICK has removed a lot of the 'marine' bit away from the Corps.
 
#12
If only the RN could do the job then yes crack on, but thats why the US insisted on the 'Marines' in the 1950s.
Changed that for you. The RN could do the job. My main fear is the fact you can find a whole strata of Capt RM and Cpl/Sgt RM who've never lived in a ship, who probably haven't done a full Norway season, and the last time they did boat work was at CTCRM. 539 ASRM is an awesome unit, but it seems to be the ginger step-child of the Corps at the moment.
 
#13
Fair point but it was the RN who decided that the ships you were buying didn't have room for RM dets, thats why you now have small dets on various deployments and the usual Assault Sqns on the larger ships. You can't have it both ways unless you want your warfare branch to specialise in this role.

"For future operations, the marines need a boat which is fast, can provide accurate and effective firepower to protect ships and landing craft, and can put a small raiding/reconnaissance party of commandos ashore well in advance of the main force – and a long way from the mother ship". Where does the RN fit into that role?
 
#14
"For future operations, the RN need a boat which is fast, can provide accurate and effective firepower to protect ships and offshore installations. Furthermore they can conduct operations in water too shallow for a mother ship, and dominate the brown water such as delta, rivers, roadsteads and harbours. It would have utility in providing organic fire-support against FIAC attack."

:D
 
#15
alfred

Force Protection is also the role of FPGRM - including P Sqn.

Oddly perhaps, when I heard the suggestion from the COMATG Staff Officer, he was talking about matelots (more than that - Reservists) manning them, and defending a ambpibious landing from FIACs etc. Perhaps the fact that they can carry troops means that the bootnecks see them as belonging to them?

What would we deploy this from? LPD? LPH? LSD(A)? If so that might be another reason for the booties to be in charge.

This reply was written before the latest comments from you and timex.
 
#16
Lets face it the real reason we are getting this sort of stuff is because the RN (and sadly the RM) had their arses handed to them by Iran. We were hopelessly equipped and had half trained sailors in the mix (not their fault). The RN has a massive capability gap, wether Jack or Royal owns them I don't care so long as we are capable of looking after ourselves.

This is just another stable door moment for the RN, it got shafted by the RAF over FW and is now fighting the RAF for Merlin. Where will you get the bods to man the boats in the protection role?
 
#17
Simples - I'll use the FP boats in the same role as our seaboats. I have no problem with Royal having them for the 539 jobs, where I have a problem is me taking 2 sea boats, with a shit GPMG, into potentially hostile situations. FPGRM have never turned up to do force protection on any of the T23 I've served in, so I doubt they're going to start now. If it came down to it, I could find the line numbers needed to do the job, probably from places like P Sqn or simply make this a core role for people like Specs.

The wider problem for the RN is it's institutional dis-like of small boats, and anything that threatens CVF/T45/T26. Which is great, but right now we're using billion dollar warships to provide FP in a whole host of situations in lieu of a a heavily armed CB90/SOC-R type craft. The inevitable comment is "how to they get there", the answer is a) forward deploy, b) make sure they fit in the LPD/LPH/LSD(A) and c) accept they're not going to work everywhere.
 
#18
So basically Royal gets them for the Assault role with LC drivers and the RN get them for blue water Ops but use P sqn for the firepower?

Good luck with that...
 
#19
The wider problem for the RN is it's institutional dis-like of small boats, and anything that threatens CVF/T45/T26. Which is great, but right now we're using billion dollar warships to provide FP in a whole host of situations in lieu of a a heavily armed CB90/SOC-R type craft.
Sadly always will be the case..
 
#20
So basically Royal gets them for the Assault role with LC drivers and the RN get them for blue water Ops but use P sqn for the firepower?

Good luck with that...
P Sqn can fucking do one. I'll use my gunners and specs thank you very much, amazingly the RN can drive boats and fire guns. I'm not sure why I need luck, just $8mil to buy 6 SOC-R craft, including the full scale of spares. And before you say we're broke, go ask DE&S what their annual, 'in-year', underspend has been for the last decade. And then go buy me some boats.
 

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