Blank firers

#1
I've just seen an item on the BBC website about a bloke being done for the possession of illegal firearms, to whit a blank firing revolver and two gas cartridge pistols.

I know they tightened up on the sale of blank-firers - but I did not realise that they had made possession of the old style ones illegal ?
 
#3
These were in his house tho - Police called when baliffs found them while assessing the value of property post Bankrucpy or some such.
 
#4
Gas cartridge = a CS discharging weapon, commonly sold on the continent for self defence with few restrictions. However in the UK they are classed as a Section 5 prohibited weapon.
 
#5
Gun_Nut said:
Gas cartridge = a CS discharging weapon, commonly sold on the continent for self defence with few restrictions. However in the UK they are classed as a Section 5 prohibited weapon.
More likely a Brocock TAC. Most journalists and police don't know a s1 from a s5, an air pistol from a CS gun or air catridge gun. A gun is a gun and is an arrest, and allows them to claim that they are tackling gun crime by going after non-guns and their hapless owners.

When blank firers became illegal, you coul have grandafther rights on them, but you had to prove/satisy the authorities if asked that you acquired them before the ban. What happened with Brocock TACs was as long as you applied for a firearm certificate, and was granted one, you could own them without any other conditions, but you could not sell, transfer, loan them and effectively had to buried with them in your own pyramid. But the ban was not at all well publicised outside the club circuit, and not every airgun user is in a club, or even reads the sport press.

So, once again, a harmless blank firer and a not very good airgun (as any TAC owner will testify), not being used illegally, will see its owner facing 5 years in jail. Stalin and Adolf would be proud
 
#6
Thanks. Another "firearms" case recently was some old boy, terrorised by local neds who made the mistake of coming to the door with a deactivated rifle.


.....and in a social conversation with a local plod I discoverd that he was convinced that airguns had already been banned in Scotland....
 
#8
barneyrnsm said:
If used in a public place they are classed as fire arms.
eh?

Loads of possible charges but I don't think that's actually law as you describe it!
 
#9
EX_STAB said:
barneyrnsm said:
If used in a public place they are classed as fire arms.
eh?

Loads of possible charges but I don't think that's actually law as you describe it!
Go out in town with a blank firing gun and let me know when you get out!!!
I will keep all my firearms airguns and deacts locked away unless I have permission to use them on private land,oh that will be my brothers farm!
Choice is yours!
 
#10
walt_of_the_walts said:
Gun_Nut said:
Gas cartridge = a CS discharging weapon, commonly sold on the continent for self defence with few restrictions. However in the UK they are classed as a Section 5 prohibited weapon.
More likely a Brocock TAC.
Reading the article, you are quite right. Air cartridge airgun, so section 1. Not quite clear what offence he could have committed with a blank firer; perhaps it was of a type that could be 'readily converted'?

This chap hardly sounds like a danger to society. It's yet another example of how the 'absolute offences' in Firearms law leave the courts with little room for the application of common sense and judgement.

BBC News
 
#11
barneyrnsm said:
EX_STAB said:
barneyrnsm said:
If used in a public place they are classed as fire arms.
eh?

Loads of possible charges but I don't think that's actually law as you describe it!
Go out in town with a blank firing gun and let me know when you get out!!!
I will keep all my firearms airguns and deacts locked away unless I have permission to use them on private land,oh that will be my brothers farm!
Choice is yours!
so you think they're not firearms until you take them out in public? The relevant term is "readily convertible" and it matters not a fig where you have one in your possession.
 
#12
Gun_Nut said:
walt_of_the_walts said:
Gun_Nut said:
Gas cartridge = a CS discharging weapon, commonly sold on the continent for self defence with few restrictions. However in the UK they are classed as a Section 5 prohibited weapon.
More likely a Brocock TAC.

Reading the article, you are quite right.
Air cartridge airgun, so section 1. Not quite clear what offence he could have committed with a blank firer; perhaps it was of a type that could be 'readily converted'?

This chap hardly sounds like a danger to society. It's yet another example of how the 'absolute offences' in Firearms law leave the courts with little room for the application of common sense and judgement.

BBC News
Self contained Air Cartridge weapons went to Section 5 as I recall. If they were section 1 you could buy and sell them.
 
#13
EX_STAB said:
Gun_Nut said:
walt_of_the_walts said:
Gun_Nut said:
Gas cartridge = a CS discharging weapon, commonly sold on the continent for self defence with few restrictions. However in the UK they are classed as a Section 5 prohibited weapon.
More likely a Brocock TAC.

Reading the article, you are quite right.
Air cartridge airgun, so section 1. Not quite clear what offence he could have committed with a blank firer; perhaps it was of a type that could be 'readily converted'?

This chap hardly sounds like a danger to society. It's yet another example of how the 'absolute offences' in Firearms law leave the courts with little room for the application of common sense and judgement.

BBC News
Self contained Air Cartridge weapons went to Section 5 as I recall. If they were section 1 you could buy and sell them.
No. I had 2 SCAC* rifles on my last FAC on s.1. (special conditions applied) No sale, loan or transfer, basically.

They ended up in Croydon Nick when I gave up shooting.

If/when they realise the licensing system is a waste of time with all this good gun/bad gun bolleaux, and start licensing the individual, not the gun I might take up shooting again. And when the useless fcukers of the NRA are all dead, too.

*SCAC=Self contained Air Cartridge. The Home Office's ludicrous legal definition of an 'eeeevill!' type of air weapon :x :roll:

EDIT: When I first looked at the link, the pic did not load. I now see it's Dave Courtney. (ex) Gangster?

Mind you, he got off a real crime when HM Customs tried to pot him for involvement in a cocaine smuggling ring, so I don't think this will worry him too much.

Anyway, someone who moves in the circles he claims to (which I've had my doubts about) wouldn't fcuk about with converting BFs and SCAC/TACs. If we are to believe the HO/Police propaganda, his mates could sort out a real Gat for him in half an hour, couldn't they?

Dave Courtney has always struck me as a bit of a Gangster Walt. No threat to society unless people die laughing. And he's not funny enough for that.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#14
You can be prosecuted for actions likely to cause distress under the VCRA rather than a firearms offence. The funny thing is that you can act within the firearm laws and still break the VCRA especially if using a starter pistol to train your gundog!
 
#15
ugly said:
You can be prosecuted for actions likely to cause distress under the VCRA rather than a firearms offence. The funny thing is that you can act within the firearm laws and still break the VCRA especially if using a starter pistol to train your gundog!
Doesn't the offence of affray cover 'actions likely to cause distress'?
(maximum sentence for affray is Life, IIRC)

Or does affray require tedious procedures like witness statements and evidence to be gathered, rather than just opinion of a plod who has been brainwashed by HO propaganda?

What evidence would be required to make a prosecution under the VCRA stand up in court, and why is a prosecution for affray not sufficient?

Shooting sports entusiasts. They will get you all in the end!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#16
The offense of behaviour likely to cause offense/distress means that the evidence of plod is likely to be accepted, however a good solicitor should be able to defend you, that said most of these charges are raised by brainwashed flatfoots rather than generated by complaints from the public. The law again is being misused, simply how can it be likely to cause offense/distress unless it has done so or has been tested in law. Most of the stuff raised is pretty subjective and wouldnt stand the common sense test.
 
#17
ugly said:
Most of the stuff raised is pretty subjective and wouldnt stand the common sense test.
Absolutely. But the Police won't let it see the inside of a courtroom, because they know the pitfalls and will try and talk you into accepting a caution. Accept a caution and wave goodbye to your FAC/SGC, if not immediately, later when you wish to renew it. Plod's happy as they can tell the HO they have tackled gun/violent crime, got a conviction(cautions count in the figures, apparently) and there's one less FAC out there for them to administer. And they call themselves a 'police service'. A service to themselves, not us!

This case highlights what shooters have been saying for years. The Firearms Act 1968 is no longer fit for purpose, having been tinkered with by ill-informed politicians and police chiefs for so long, no-one understands it anymore, and it has not kept firearms out of the hands of criminals. It needs to be ripped up and started afresh, with an emphasis on licensing the individual, not the gun. Any legislature that defines crap airguns, airsofts and blank firers as a threat to law and order has lost its way entirely.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#18
This case highlights what shooters have been saying for years. The Firearms Act 1968 is no longer fit for purpose, having been tinkered with by ill-informed politicians and police chiefs for so long, no-one understands it anymore, and it has not kept firearms out of the hands of criminals. It needs to be ripped up and started afresh, with an emphasis on licensing the individual, not the gun. Any legislature that defines crap airguns, airsofts and blank firers as a threat to law and order has lost its way entirely.
After all its the person that pulls the trigger not the gun itself!
 

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