Blair Issues Warning To Iran Leader

#2
and where the feck to we get the troops from to go bashing Iran? Oh I know..we'll chop another 3000 coz that "will make us more effective" (to quote some top brass wallah)
 
#3
#5
KGB_resident said:
Consult me about English language please!

http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20051027-033058-5883r

U.K. warns Iran over Israel threat
Of course it is right. Israel is a real threat to Iran but I suspect that something else was meant.

Btw, mr.Blair has many options. He could break trade and even diplomatic relations with Iran. Without real actions words remain only words.
British trade with Iran is worth billions, Iranian trade with Britian is only worth millions - who has more to lose?
There are reports that Iran has already imposed unoffical sanctions against Britain.
 
#6
KGB_resident said:
Consult me about English language please!

http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20051027-033058-5883r

U.K. warns Iran over Israel threat
Of course it is right. Israel is a real threat to Iran but I suspect that something else was meant.
Yes. The headline refers to the fact that Iran has called for Israel to be destroyed. Iran has threatened Israel. Blair isn't too happy about that threat and is warning Iran that just because the World is busy dealing with other problems doesn't mean it will not take action against Iran.
 
#7
And afterwards...don't forget that Bush still wants to trample Syria !!
 
#8
Only saw the BBC news coverage of TCB's speech - he looked pretty unconvincing. Maybe having to face all his doubters made him doubt the words even as he was saying them. Or maybe he could hear Gordon Brown's words in his ear 'no more dosh for weapons'.
 
#9
Scabster_Mooch said:
KGB_resident said:
Consult me about English language please!

http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20051027-033058-5883r

U.K. warns Iran over Israel threat
Of course it is right. Israel is a real threat to Iran but I suspect that something else was meant.
Yes. The headline refers to the fact that Iran has called for Israel to be destroyed. Iran has threatened Israel. Blair isn't too happy about that threat and is warning Iran that just because the World is busy dealing with other problems doesn't mean it will not take action against Iran.
Yes, of course, in context of current events it is obvious what really UPI meant. I asked to analyse the phrase from fromal point of view, from point of view of fine English language. Let's look at this example:

In 1991 U.K warned Kuwait over Iraq threat.

Is it possible to understand this phrase as the UK warned Kuwait not to threat Iraq?

PS. My previous post was about linguistics only.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#10
There is so much b0ll0cks flying about on the US relationship with Iran.....anyone remember this bloke?

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1497607/posts#comment


NYT: Pentagon Analyst Admits Sharing Secret Data (Lawrence A. Franklin)
New York Times ^ | October 6, 2005 | ERIC LICHTBLAU


Posted on 10/06/2005 5:52:41 AM PDT by OESY


A senior Defense Department analyst admitted Wednesday that he shared secret military information with two pro-Israeli lobbyists and an Israeli official in an effort to create a "backchannel" to the Bush administration on Middle East policy.

The analyst, Lawrence A. Franklin, pleaded guilty in federal court here to three criminal counts for improperly retaining and disclosing classified information, and he gave the first account of his motives and thinking in establishing secret liaisons with people outside the government.

The offenses carry a maximum of 25 years in prison, but as part of a plea agreement, prosecutors are expected to recommend leniency for Mr. Franklin in return for his cooperation in a continuing investigation in the January trial of the two lobbyists, Steven J. Rosen and Keith Weissman.

The lobbyists were dismissed last year by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or Aipac, after the investigation became public.

Mr. Franklin, 58, said in entering his guilty pleas that he had shared with the lobbyists "my frustrations with a particular policy" during repeated meetings from 2002 to 2004. He did not divulge the particular policy, but officials in the case said he was referring to the Bush administration's dealings with Iran.

Some of the more hawkish officials in the administration have pushed for a harder line in confronting Iran about its nuclear ambitions....

Mr. Franklin worked for a time as a senior analyst on Iran under Douglas Feith, a former under secretary at the Pentagon. Mr. Franklin said in court that he believed the Aipac lobbyists had access and influence at the National Security Council, which coordinates policy issues for the president and was deeply involved in setting the administration's course on Iran.

He said he hoped the lobbyists could help influence policy by passing on information that he knew was classified....
We're not talking about a memo saying 'I need a bathroom break' here- this guy( a reserve Air Force Colonel) passed over 80 classified documents over to these two fellers, including 37 Top Secret items, some of which originated with the CIA.

Supposing it had been a false flag op and these guys were actually channelling the material to Sergei's mates or China ?
Imagine the headlines if he'd been passing the same material to two Syrian friends.....

Colonel Franklin will probably get off with a fine . .....He should be shot, for betraying his country - ideally in the middle of that bit of greenery at the heart of the Pentagon, pour encourager les autres


( Okay Neo, who's going to be the first to label me an anti-Semite - for daring to raise the issue of how much influence Israel wields on US Foreign policy ? Is it any wonder the US can't get any decent HUMINT in ME , when potential friends know their material is going to get passed straight on to Israel ?)

Lee Shaver
 
#11
What has our dear leader got against the Arabs/Muslims? Is it something to do with the vast and powerful Jewish lobby in America?

Before he goes off on another American sponsored power trip in the Iranian direction, why the fcuk does he not give us an opportunity to go and rattle the charming Mr Robert Mugabe's cage, and winkle that nasty little git out of his present surroundings?

I'm sorry if it offends anyone (in fact, no I'm not), but I have more than a touch of sympathy with the Iranian position on the occupied Palestinian homeland at the moment known to some as Israel.

Now, before the less well read of you start bleating on about the holocaust and anti-semitism - stow it for a while, and swot up on your history.

I am against the principal of a Zionist state. I am not against people who adhere to the Jewish faith. The Jewish faith is generally a good thing - after all it spawned 'our' own. Christ started his life, and indeed, ended it as a Jew.

We, the allies, were chinless and short sighted at the end of WW2. And it is as a result of those disasterous policies, and the subsequent dreadful terrorist campaign (lest we forget) prosecuted against the British by Zionist extremists that led to the formation of what is now Israel. Yesterdays terrorists are tomorrows statesmen.

Why can't people see why the Palestinians are so pi$$ed off? They've been hoofed out of where they lived, and were forced into a nomadic, homeless, stateless, refugee situation, not of their choosing. It is fashionable to hop up and down wailing about ethnic cleansing and apartheid when its close to home, (Balkans, Africa, Northern Ireland, North America). Why not Palestine?

So, let's call for the abolition of the Zionist state of Israel. And reform the place as a secular all encompassing all embracing multifaith/racial/cultural country for those concerned. How far fetched is that? Think about it - that's what we've got (after a fashion....).
 
#12
KGB_resident said:
Scabster_Mooch said:
KGB_resident said:
Consult me about English language please!

http://www.upi.com/InternationalIntelligence/view.php?StoryID=20051027-033058-5883r

U.K. warns Iran over Israel threat
Of course it is right. Israel is a real threat to Iran but I suspect that something else was meant.
Yes. The headline refers to the fact that Iran has called for Israel to be destroyed. Iran has threatened Israel. Blair isn't too happy about that threat and is warning Iran that just because the World is busy dealing with other problems doesn't mean it will not take action against Iran.
Yes, of course, in context of current events it is obvious what really UPI meant. I asked to analyse the phrase from fromal point of view, from point of view of fine English language. Let's look at this example:

In 1991 U.K warned Kuwait over Iraq threat.

Is it possible to understand this phrase as the UK warned Kuwait not to threat Iraq?

PS. My previous post was about linguistics only.
Got you now.

Your right by themselves both phrases can have double meanings but thats why the context of the phrase is so important.
The struture of the English language (as with most languages) allows for this phenomenon.
 
#13
AF1771 said:
and where the feck to we get the troops from to go bashing Iran? Oh I know..we'll chop another 3000 coz that "will make us more effective" (to quote some top brass wallah)
Aha! perhaps that's what the new Iraqi army's being trained for.

I believe they have modest experience in this particular field. :wink:
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#14
Mr Bliar's comments don't seem to have put the Iranians off:

"Iran stands firm on Israel remark

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad came to power earlier this year
Iran has defended its president's call for Israel to be "wiped off the map", saying this has been its foreign policy since the 1979 Islamic revolution.
Ahead of an anti-Israel rally in Tehran, Foreign Minister Manoucher Mottaki said Iran did not recognise the "illegitimate Zionist regime".

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's words provoked international outrage, but Muslim countries have not reacted."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4384264.stm
 
#15
Queensman said:
What has our dear leader got against the Arabs/Muslims? Is it something to do with the vast and powerful Jewish lobby in America?
Why just America? Bliar has recently been criticised for rewarding, with peerages, several prominent donors to the Labour Party, a number of whom are Jews.

http://comment.independent.co.uk/leading_articles/article321552.ece

Then there's the existing gang (all unelected): Lord Sainsbury, Pansy Mandelson, Lord Levy, Lord Mishcon et al. Whilst I don't believe there's a Jewish conspiracy, I do think that Bliar allows himself to be guided too much by a distinct special interest group.

I'm not sure, though, that the Celestial Navigator has a downer on Arabs and Muslims; after all, he wouldn't wish to jeopardise the votes they give him, or the money donated to Neue Arbeit by wealthy Muslims either. It is an amazing balancing act, trying to keep them all happy so they'll vote for him and keep donating.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#16
This is from the Associated Press report online earlier this year on Colonel Franklin's case. His home , mentioned in the text, is in Kearneysville, West Virginia:

The FBI found 83 classified documents in Franklin's home in the eastern panhandle town in June 2004, court filings said. Investigators say 38 documents were classified top-secret and 37 others secret.

Tuesday's charge of unlawfully possessing classified federal defense documents focuses on six documents written between October 2003 and June 2004. Four were CIA documents: three about Al Qaeda and one involving Osama bin Laden. Two were top-secret and the rest were secret.

Franklin was authorized to carry such documents within the Washington-Baltimore-Richmond area but not to West Virginia, officials said.

A specialist in Iranian and Middle Eastern affairs, Franklin had consented to the June 2004 search of his home while the FBI investigated whether Israel had improperly obtained U.S. secrets. He lost his clearance to review top-secret documents that month.

He was charged May 3 with providing top-secret information about potential attacks against U.S. forces in Iraq to two executives of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the influential pro-Israel lobbying group.
Be interesting to see if the Israeli Ambassador is called in to have a severe dressing-down/ interview without coffee by the Iron Lady of Foggy Bottom, Mizz Rice ( easy gentlemen.....hold on to your fantasies please :) ) if the good Colonel Franklin is duly convicted of these, ahem, allegations......


Oh, and for the record Queensman, I have no problem with the existence of the State of Israel......we can't unwind 60 years of historical fact.....posession being 9/10ths of the Law and all that. And I don't believe suicide bombing restaurants in Haifa and buses in Tel Aviv is the way ahead either.

It does not mean that either we or our American cousins should let the Israelis get away with murder TODAY as a matter of policy.

FWIW,my two denarii,

Le Chevre
 
#17
Scabster_Mooch said:
Blair isn't too happy about that threat and is warning Iran that just because the World is busy dealing with other problems doesn't mean it will not take action against Iran.
Call me Mr thick, but We ARE too busy dealing with Iraq and afgahnistan to do anything other than say "You're a very naughty boy!".
Unless the french are going to stop flogging weapons to everyone and do something about it.

And you can just see the Indians/Chinesse/Germans leaping at the chance to go off and take on Iran for the next upteen years.
 
#18
Queensman said:
What has our dear leader got against the Arabs/Muslims? Is it something to do with the vast and powerful Jewish lobby in America?

Before he goes off on another American sponsored power trip in the Iranian direction, why the fcuk does he not give us an opportunity to go and rattle the charming Mr Robert Mugabe's cage, and winkle that nasty little git out of his present surroundings?

I'm sorry if it offends anyone (in fact, no I'm not), but I have more than a touch of sympathy with the Iranian position on the occupied Palestinian homeland at the moment known to some as Israel.

Now, before the less well read of you start bleating on about the holocaust and anti-semitism - stow it for a while, and swot up on your history.

I am against the principal of a Zionist state. I am not against people who adhere to the Jewish faith. The Jewish faith is generally a good thing - after all it spawned 'our' own. Christ started his life, and indeed, ended it as a Jew.

We, the allies, were chinless and short sighted at the end of WW2. And it is as a result of those disasterous policies, and the subsequent dreadful terrorist campaign (lest we forget) prosecuted against the British by Zionist extremists that led to the formation of what is now Israel. Yesterdays terrorists are tomorrows statesmen.

Why can't people see why the Palestinians are so pi$$ed off? They've been hoofed out of where they lived, and were forced into a nomadic, homeless, stateless, refugee situation, not of their choosing. It is fashionable to hop up and down wailing about ethnic cleansing and apartheid when its close to home, (Balkans, Africa, Northern Ireland, North America). Why not Palestine?

So, let's call for the abolition of the Zionist state of Israel. And reform the place as a secular all encompassing all embracing multifaith/racial/cultural country for those concerned. How far fetched is that? Think about it - that's what we've got (after a fashion....).
Do I understand you in the right way that you propose to wipe out Israel as a Zionist state? Do you agree with 'Bosnian' scheme: the only state in Palestine with Jewish and Arab autonomous areas? And of course with prinsiple one person - one vote.

In this context an expression 'wipe out Israel' would look not so threatening.
 

Goatman

ADC
Book Reviewer
#19
Random_Task said:
AF1771 said:
and where the feck to we get the troops from to go bashing Iran? Oh I know..we'll chop another 3000 coz that "will make us more effective" (to quote some top brass wallah)
Aha! perhaps that's what the new Iraqi army's being trained for.

I believe they have modest experience in this particular field. :wink:
Yeah....8 years worth
from The history Channel:
http://www.thehistorychannel.co.uk/site/search/search.php?enc=23848

Iran-Iraq War, 1980-88, protracted military conflict between Iran and Iraq. It officially began on Sept. 22, 1980, with an Iraqi land and air invasion of western Iran, although Iraqi spokespersons maintained that Iran had been engaging in artillery attacks on Iraqi towns since Sept. 4. Iraqi president Saddam Hussein claimed as the reason for his attack on Iran a territorial dispute over the Shatt al Arab, a waterway that empties into the Persian Gulf and forms the boundary between Iran and Iraq. In 1975, a militarily weaker Iraq had by treaty signed over to Iran partial control of the waterway, but after the fall (1979) of Muhammad Reza Shah Pahlevi and the resultant weakening of Iran's military, Iraq seized the opportunity to reclaim the Shatt al Arab. Iraq also hoped to seize the western Iranian region of Khuzestan, an area known for its extensive oil fields. The Iraqi offensive was initially successful, capturing the port city of Khorramshahr by the end of 1980. Iranian resistance proved strong, however, and Iraqi troops had withdrawn from the occupied portions of Iran by early 1982. Nevertheless, Iranian leader Ruhollah Khomeini declared that Iran would not cease fighting until Saddam's regime was toppled. Iran began a series of offensives, which proved successful enough to cause Iraq to resort to the use of chemical weapons (see poison gas), a tactic reviled by the international community. Khomeini's troops captured the oil-rich Majnoon Islands from Iraq in Feb., 1984, and southern Iraq's Fao peninsula in early 1986. Sporadic air and missile attacks on cities and military installations were common throughout the war, and in 1985 both sides began to strike their opponent's capital. The United States and several Western European nations became involved in the war in 1987, in response to Iranian attacks on Kuwaiti oil tankers traveling in the Persian Gulf. These attacks sullied Iran's international reputation considerably, making it difficult for Khomeini to obtain arms. Finally, in July, 1988, Iran was forced to accept a United Nations-mandated cease-fire. Estimates of the number of dead range up to 1.5 million. In its war effort, Iran was supported by Syria and Libya, and received much of its weaponry from North Korea and China, as well as from covert arms transactions from the United States. Iraq enjoyed much wider support, both among Arab and Western nations: the Soviet Union was its largest supplier of arms. In 1990 Iraq, concerned with securing its forcible annexation of Kuwait (see Persian Gulf War), agreed to accept the terms of the 1975 treaty with Iran and withdraw its troops from Iranian territory as well as exchange all prisoners of war. An agreement was not signed, however, and both sides held thousands of POWs for many years. Several prisoner exchanges and releases occurred after 1988; the final exchange took place in 2003.
and from the BBC news site:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4270338.stm

The 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war - in which the West backed Saddam Hussein against the new Islamic regime in Tehran - became a long and brutal conflict which led to the deaths of up to a million people.

Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran and against the Kurds in northern Iraq.

The official reason for the Iraqi invasion was a border dispute, but there were also other tensions.

The new Iranian government - created after Islamic revolution the year before - was strongly opposed to Saddam Hussein's suppression of Shia groups in Iraq.

Iraq suspected the Iranian leader, Ayatollah Khomeini, of trying to use such groups to export Iran's Islamic revolution.
...this is just the recent history....these folk have been dropping each other for centuries. No amount of Western hand-wringing is about to change things....

Lee Shaver
 
#20
Bliar already paid the blood price for Iraq on the 7th of July so he'd better have a good long think before embarking on anymore military adventures.
 

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