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BLACK SWAN Sloop

Don't you guys trickle feed?

Yeah everyone does 4 months on 3 months off. And off is off not working shoreside.

Catch is, you work up one set of people and then when the ship has to do something serious she's got a different set of people who haven't worked up together.
That why you rotate every one through in small groups. Not the whole shebang rotating in a oner. At least you dont have everyone burned out and threaders like you would if they had been away for 9 whole months. The RFA do it that people people can rotate between any ship which wpuldnt really work in the RN setting but it isnt an insurmountable problem.




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As fun as it is to bitch about "shore" workers, much like the CS, the RN wouldn't work without them.
 
As fun as it is to bitch about "shore" workers, much like the CS, the RN wouldn't work without them.
Sorry that wasnt me bitching about them. It was pointing out that in the RFA your leave after sea is time off not a "shore draft" like many people think. I agree with you and think there isnt enough resilience built into the RN any more with all the lost jobs.

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Yokel

LE
You do not need to mount a M/H sonar on the hull. You can get some very good results with various autonomous results out there. Please stop talking about de-magnetised steel, it's a non-starter RN ships do not want to drive into the minefield. That isn't to say you can't put personnel into the field, just avoid putting the big metal thing in, so it can send smaller non-metal remus/seafox carrying boats with a smaller mission crew. That, from (limited but current) experience, is where we need to go. Thankfully, we are.

Can I just point out manning? For any of the concepts currently bouncing around this thread, from the T26, to the BS.. sorry Black Sloop Class stuff, we do NOT have the people. We don't even have the people to man the current shps we have let alone a new class, or 'more cheap warships'.

We leave it as it is, and as i've mentioned in the T26 thread, the current haemorrhage of people will just get worse. This is a harsh truth that the fantasy fleet types on here are forgetting.

Some people are still building MCMVs!

Kormoran II Mine Countermeasure Vessels (MCMV), Poland

The Kormoran II mine hunting vessel's hull is constructed using non-magnetic steel, which offers less operating costs and easy modernisation. It features low signature and high manoeuvrability.

The ship has an overall length of 58.5m, maximum width of 10.3m, height of 6.4m to the forecastle deck, and 4.7m to the main deck aft. It has a displacement of 850t and accommodates a crew of 45 personnel in addition to carrying six members. The middle section of the vessel houses an auxiliary power room and fuel tanks.

The Kormoran II mine hunting vessel will be integrated with radars, communications and navigational equipment.

Its mine countermeasure tasks are supported by Saab's Double Eagle, which can be operated as a remotely-operated vehicle (ROV) or as an autonomous underwater vehicle (AUV). The Double Eagle is capable of performing missions including mine disposal, underwater survey, identification and detection of underwater objects.
 
Some people are still building MCMVs!

Kormoran II Mine Countermeasure Vessels (MCMV), Poland

The Kormoran II mine hunting vessel's hull is constructed using non-magnetic steel, which offers less operating costs and easy modernisation. It features low signature and high manoeuvrability.

The ship has an overall length of 58.5m, maximum width of 10.3m, height of 6.4m to the forecastle deck, and 4.7m to the main deck aft. It has a displacement of 850t and accommodates a crew of 45 personnel in addition to carrying six members. The middle section of the vessel houses an auxiliary power room and fuel tanks.

The Kormoran II mine hunting vessel will be integrated with radars, communications and navigational equipment.

Its mine countermeasure tasks are supported by Saab's Double Eagle, which can be operated as a remotely-operated vehicle (ROV) or as an autonomous underwater vehicle (AUV). The Double Eagle is capable of performing missions including mine disposal, underwater survey, identification and detection of underwater objects.

Size of a WW2 Algerine class ocean going minesweeper. Often used as escorts they did sweep but were often hijacked as a maid of all work. See where I'm going here.
 

Yokel

LE
My point is - even remotely controlled systems need a (dedicated) platform.
 
No they don't.

They do, although I suspect though you are arguing over semantics.

They will need be embarked and used from a vessel that is assigned that specific role eg dedicated.
They will not perhaps need a dedicated purpose built platform.
 

S0I

LE
They do, although I suspect though you are arguing over semantics.

They will need be embarked and used from a vessel that is assigned that specific role eg dedicated.
They will not perhaps need a dedicated purpose built platform.


The whole point of the latest generation of mine hunting and clearing ROVs and UAVs is any ship can deploy its own mine hunting and clearing capability that can give it a persistent OTH mine hunting capability.
 
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Im sorry but I don't think that's feasible.

I accept the argument that it enables any ship to do MCM but the ship has to be dedicated to the task for the duration.
 

Yokel

LE
Im sorry but I don't think that's feasible.

I accept the argument that it enables any ship to do MCM but the ship has to be dedicated to the task for the duration.

Exactly my point, particularly when our FF/DD force is so heavily commited.
 

S0I

LE
There's an old joke "any ship can be a minesweeper - once"

You can't always rely on shipping sweepers out to where you want to play on a heavy lift ship or a 3 month passage via a dozen stops. So, you drop your autonomous systems over the side and get them to do their stuff.
 
There's an old joke "any ship can be a minesweeper - once"

You can't always rely on shipping sweepers out to where you want to play on a heavy lift ship or a 3 month passage via a dozen stops. So, you drop your autonomous systems over the side and get them to do their stuff.

But is that not the whole point of MHCP - MCM will be operated from River + sized** hulls. So can self deploy with the fleet.


**Despite all the Khareef / Super corvettes etc and light frigate fantasy fleets, I think something like the Spanish BAM is what will emerge.

Perhaps a 40mm CTA/ 57mm Turret and perhaps FFBNW CAAM if they really splash out.
 

S0I

LE
MHCP? So far into the long grass its looking lost for ever.
You'll open the mission bay and chuck your UAV's into the water to find/nutralise any lurking mines.

There are also long endurance systems that can be left patrolling likely areas for days/weeks/months to watch for anyone leaving presents or for submarines taking up a hiding position.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/...-first-underwater-drones-from-submarines.html

40mm CTA/57mm ? No. RN will not upgun its auxiliaries into pretend warships. That's an institutional policy thats unlikely ever to change.
 

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