Black Bull

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by BenghaziBandit, Jul 3, 2010.

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  1. I notice that some of the returning troops from Afghanistan are wearing a badge that looks similar (but in different colours) to the old 11th.Armoured Div. of WW2, what Div, Group? is this ?
    and anyone got a spare they can let me have for my collection please?

    Attached Files:

  2. Top one looks like 20 Armoured Brigade flash. The one at the bottom is a rhino (I think).
  3. _Chimurenga_

    _Chimurenga_ LE Gallery Guru

    The one at the bottom is the 25th Armoured Brigade.
  4. No such thing in the modern army.
  5. _Chimurenga_

    _Chimurenga_ LE Gallery Guru

    I believe it was a temporary post-war formation.
  6. It's 11th Light Brigade. A scratch formation made up by borrowing bits of other brigades. Don't think it'll be around much longer, with the tour over.
  7. _Chimurenga_

    _Chimurenga_ LE Gallery Guru

    This is 11th Light Brigade ...
  8. The modern day fist flash is worn by 20 armoured brigade based in paderborne germany.

    The modern day rhino flash is 1 uk armoured div.

    20 armoured brigade is part of 1 uk aroured div.
  9. The 20th Light Armoured Brigade was formed on 3 September 1939 as part of the Territorial Army. The Brigade initially served under the Southern Command and its original regiments were the 1st Royal Gloucestershire Hussars, and 1st and 2nd Northamptonshire Yeomanry. On 14 April 1940 it was re-titled the 20th Armoured Brigade; a title it has retained ever since.

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  10. Sorry for the confusion..........the badges on my first post are mine!!!
    All I needed to know is what the Black Bull flash is they are wearing now please.
    The badges I posted are................Mailed Fist is '1st' Armoured Div.
    It was originally '6th Arm.Div. in WW2 (also as 'the special one' writes the '20th.AB)but was changed to '1st. 1946.(We wore this in the Bays in Italy).
    The 'static Rhino was the original 1st.Arm.Div. in WW2.
    The 'charging Rhino' we adapted in May 1947 before the 1st.Armd. moved to Palestine. A short life as 2Arm.Bgd. dissbanded in September 1947 in Quassassin Egypt. But the Life Guards continued to wear it in Palestine.
    The original Black Bull of the 11th. Armoured Div. in WW2 had a yellow background.
    So, the Black Bull being worn now is the 11th.Light Brigade. Thanks.
    (see pic. of me wearing 1st.Arm.Div. flash in Italy 1946).

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  11. One of the original 11th Armoured Division black Bull flags used to be in the dining room of the Offciers mess at the Divisional HQ and Signal Regiment Mess in Herford. This is where 11 Armourded Division ended up at thye end of the War. The same HQ was used by HQ 4th then 1st Armoured Division as divisions were renumbered post war. I suspect in each case the signs changed but substantial numbers of soldiers remained.

    So the true descendents of the 11th Armoured Division may really be 1 ADSR...

    11 Bde have used the charging Bull since Brigades and formation signs came back in fashion C 1982-3 after the "Task Force" experiment. Most 1980s brigades adopted the emblems of the WW2 divisions of the same number or with a connection, unless the Division was still in existance. So 7 Armd Bde became Desert Rats, 11 Ardm Bde took the bull, 43 TA Bde took the Wyvern etc. 1 Infantry and 4th Armoured Brigade did not or could not adopt the badges of extant divisions. 4th Armd Bde retained the 4th Armd Bde desert rat.
  12. The old 11 Bde based in Minden used a battleaxe as it's brigade badge. A very similar badge is now used by one of the log bdes so the Bull was chosen, harking back to the old 11 Armd Div. The bull is very similar to the 33 Bde badge which was the Bde in Paderborn before the 1993 reorg.

    BB pm me if you want a modern 20 bde and 1(UK) Div flashes.
  13. Thanks for the correection. My memory must be playing tricks.

    11th (Infantry) Brigade fought in WW2 as part of 78th Division which wore the Battleaxe as its divisional sign, so, like the 4th and 20th Armoured brigades they adopted the Ww2 symbol of their parent division. . A few weeks ago I took soldiers from 102 Log Brigade to the Sangro Battlefields and they made the connection. There is quite a well known photo of a big sign with the 78th Div symbol on the reverse slope of the ridge overlooking the Sangro valley.

    Does anyone know why 33 Armoured Bde adopted the Charging bull? It wasn't the symbol of ther WW2 33 Armoured Brigade.
  14. Mushroom..........have just tried to send you request for offered badges but your message box is full.
    can you email me please.(whoops PM please)
  15. 33 bde sign of the black charging bull (taurus pursuant)on a yellow background, was part of the family crest ofthe father of tank developmet and warfare, Sir Percy Hobart, who designed the emblem for 33 Bde

    copied from this pageRoyal Corps of Signals: Unit ... - Google Books