• This is a stand-to for an incoming competition, one of our most expensive yet.
    Later this week we're going to be offering the opportunity to Win £270 Rab Neutrino Pro military down jacket
    Visit the thread at that link above and Watch it to be notified as soon as the competition goes live

Bio-Diesel

#1
I've got a 1992 Land Rover Discovery 200tdi and am considering running it on bio-diesel. I've researched various websites and get the impression that there will be no problem. Only cloud is, the websites all promote bio-diesel and therefore, could be telling porkies!

Anybody out there with experience of using such fuel and stories to tell?
 
#2
I may have used some , ahem, home made bio diesel in the past and found that the only problems were processing it properly and the smell of chips.
Other than that I lost a little performance and noticed a slightly lower MPG, I didn't get round to trying it on my discovery though.
 
#5
What you need;
2x45 gal drums
central heating pump
some pipe work
compression fittngs
immersion heater
Waste oil
Methanol 99.9 pure
Sodium Hydroxide pearl (castic soda)
Litmus paper
1 ltr de-ionised water
Fish tank air pump


Get some oil from a pub or resturant, you are looking for an oil that is liquid at room tempreture. You can use palm oil which is what most chippys use but this is a solid when cold. Lets say you've got 100 ltrs of used vegtable oil, heat your oil to 55 degree's and run your central heating pump to keep it circulating. Do a titration test on the oil, this is to work out how much Sodium Hydroxide to add to the methanol. I will explain that if someone wants in detail. Measure out 20 Ltrs methanol (20% of the amount of oil) weigh out amount of Sodium Hydroxide required and add to the methanol. Then agitate the mix to dissolve the sodium hydroxide. I use a 45Ltr plastic barrel with bearings from a cv joint. Turn off the heat and add the now sodium methoxide to the oil. let it circulate through the pump for about 2 hours. Shut off the pump and let it settle for 8 hours or more. At the bottom will be between 8-15 Ltrs of gylcerol it looks like dark treacle. drain this out until it starts to run lighter (the difference is obvious) You now have about 80 Ltrs of raw biodieselThis then gets pumped into the other tank (wash tank) We have to get all the left over chemicals out as you don't really want them going through your fuel pump. To do this you mist water gently over the top trying not to break the surface. The biodiesel still has the sodium hydroxide suspended in it and if you aggitate this too much with water it will turn to soap. The water will drop down through the biodiesel take the chemicals with it. The biodiesel will float on top of the water. Drain this water off at the bottom and it will look like milk, stop as soon as the bio comes out and repeat this until you have done 3 washes. Now you have to dry the bio. I used to use a fish tank pump bubbling away all night but now I reheat it and it does it much quicker. The bio will look cloudy at first you will know when it is dry because it will look sparkly. I then run mine through a 5 micron filter and then straight into my 300 90.

Ok thats the gist of it
 
#6
or take normal veg oil (allegedly), add white spirit (so I'm told) - so it makes up 10% of your mixture and run like that (so the rumours go). its nowhere near as good at properly processed stuff (apparently)
 
#7
Hassle said:
What you need;
2x45 gal drums
central heating pump
some pipe work
compression fittngs
immersion heater
Waste oil
Methanol 99.9 pure
Sodium Hydroxide pearl (castic soda)
Litmus paper
1 ltr de-ionised water
Fish tank air pump


Get some oil from a pub or resturant, you are looking for an oil that is liquid at room tempreture. You can use palm oil which is what most chippys use but this is a solid when cold. Lets say you've got 100 ltrs of used vegtable oil, heat your oil to 55 degree's and run your central heating pump to keep it circulating. Do a titration test on the oil, this is to work out how much Sodium Hydroxide to add to the methanol. I will explain that if someone wants in detail. Measure out 20 Ltrs methanol (20% of the amount of oil) weigh out amount of Sodium Hydroxide required and add to the methanol. Then agitate the mix to dissolve the sodium hydroxide. I use a 45Ltr plastic barrel with bearings from a cv joint. Turn off the heat and add the now sodium methoxide to the oil. let it circulate through the pump for about 2 hours. Shut off the pump and let it settle for 8 hours or more. At the bottom will be between 8-15 Ltrs of gylcerol it looks like dark treacle. drain this out until it starts to run lighter (the difference is obvious) You now have about 80 Ltrs of raw biodieselThis then gets pumped into the other tank (wash tank) We have to get all the left over chemicals out as you don't really want them going through your fuel pump. To do this you mist water gently over the top trying not to break the surface. The biodiesel still has the sodium hydroxide suspended in it and if you aggitate this too much with water it will turn to soap. The water will drop down through the biodiesel take the chemicals with it. The biodiesel will float on top of the water. Drain this water off at the bottom and it will look like milk, stop as soon as the bio comes out and repeat this until you have done 3 washes. Now you have to dry the bio. I used to use a fish tank pump bubbling away all night but now I reheat it and it does it much quicker. The bio will look cloudy at first you will know when it is dry because it will look sparkly. I then run mine through a 5 micron filter and then straight into my 300 90.

Ok thats the gist of it
You can buy unused vegitable oil and it still works out cheaper
 
#8
Another Stab in the Dark, agreed although you can suffer during the colder parts of the year. Also depends on the type of engine the new common rail engines will not work
 
#9
8) Have been reading about Bio-Diesel , seems if you use it on newer engines you will need to sort your diesel pump (seals go) and the filters after about 5 tankfuls have been used, this has even happened when B.P. stated selling low sulfur diesel in Australia cost them a lot of money to settle the damage it caused to people motors they dont sell it any more. I have read about cases of people producing their own bio diesel and all going well with older Nissen Patrols , in Germany many years ago read about fish chip oil being used in an old Merc. can smell it, nice. Some people love using Bio in their Diesels, but do make sure you are happy using it i will not use it in my van, rather be safe than be sorry, good luck to all knocker users. 8)
 
#10
Dont forget you must keep a record of how much you use then every so often send a big cheque to the tax man. :) :) I think it is about 28p per litre
 
#11
Sir_Burton_Dassett said:
I've got a 1992 Land Rover Discovery 200tdi and am considering running it on bio-diesel. I've researched various websites and get the impression that there will be no problem. Only cloud is, the websites all promote bio-diesel and therefore, could be telling porkies!

Anybody out there with experience of using such fuel and stories to tell?
Don't use Bio-Deisel in your Discovery or Range Rovers, the feul pump internals are a machine fit with very small tolerances, the deisel provides lubrication for the bearings ect. Bio-Deisel has a high ethanol content so as an alcohol provides no lubrication it rapidly wears the bearings causing early failure and fitting of a new pump. This happened to one of the guys I work with he had just bought it and it looks like the previous owner used Bio-Deisel in it, this only came to light when he took it to a main dealer for fault finding and a very expensive repair!
Contact a dealer for advice would be a good idea mate.
 
#12
node said:
8) Have been reading about Bio-Diesel , seems if you use it on newer engines you will need to sort your diesel pump (seals go) and the filters after about 5 tankfuls have been used, this has even happened when B.P. stated selling low sulfur diesel in Australia cost them a lot of money to settle the damage it caused to people motors they dont sell it any more. I have read about cases of people producing their own bio diesel and all going well with older Nissen Patrols , in Germany many years ago read about fish chip oil being used in an old Merc. can smell it, nice. Some people love using Bio in their Diesels, but do make sure you are happy using it i will not use it in my van, rather be safe than be sorry, good luck to all knocker users. 8)
Funny that, I mean using older technology it works fine but if you use the latest newest system it breaks down if you use something that might make a dent in profits.

I wonder why the newer seals and filters can't handle the job?

NOt that this is actually true of course.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#13
There is a new tax break on Bio diesel where something like production for personal use of say less than 22 000 litres per year is either exempt or on a lower rate. I am buying an ex demo isuzu rodeo and thanks for the warning lads I will have to work out how to remove red dye instead now!
 
#14
ugly said:
There is a new tax break on Bio diesel where something like production for personal use of say less than 22 000 litres per year is either exempt or on a lower rate. I am buying an ex demo isuzu rodeo and thanks for the warning lads I will have to work out how to remove red dye instead now!
apparently some naughty people are using an acid to remove the dye. (it was on the news yesterday, thats how I know)
 
#16
Veg Oil is (generally) OK through a Bosch injector pump but will destroy a Lucas CAV pump. There is a modification available but I don't know how much it costs

Veg Oil Link
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#17
Difficult to justify on an 11 month old 3.0 l td pick up! Especially as I'll be paying for 3 years for this!
 
#18
theoriginalphantom said:
ugly said:
There is a new tax break on Bio diesel where something like production for personal use of say less than 22 000 litres per year is either exempt or on a lower rate. I am buying an ex demo isuzu rodeo and thanks for the warning lads I will have to work out how to remove red dye instead now!
apparently some naughty people are using an acid to remove the dye. (it was on the news yesterday, thats how I know)
I understand the nice people who work for revenue and custons can tell now if the red dye has been removed, not quite sure how it works but there is something else in the deiso other than red dye.
 
#19
they can do a little roadside test involving some test tubes.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#20
We used to be (as public employees) exempt that rule on roadside checks, it was publicly funded derv after all. They always used to wave us through! I do recall a tale though about a local business man diluting his normal tanks with cherry at his filling station. revenue did a road side check on every lorry leaving his place and shut him down allegedly!
 

Latest Threads

Top