Big fight in Iraq

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by MrPVRd, Sep 10, 2005.

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    Probably rather one-sided as the rebels/insurgents/whatevers will surely leg it and set up shop somewhere else.

    I suppose they need to get it out of the way before the constitutional referendum and Ramadan.

  2. No doubt that there are insurgents there but you can't escape the fact that Tal Afar is a Turkman town.
    I wonder if the Kurdish peshmerga have played a 'little role' in turning it into a 'insurgent' stronghold.
    But seriously who wants odds on the next 'insurgent' town to be attacked is either Mosul or Kirkuk ?
    Can't see Erdogan being to happy that all the Turkmans have been forced out off Tal Afar.
  3. Kurds and Turks, The reason Georgei Boy wants the Turk in the EU ?
  4. In the context of Iraq and the Kurds and Turkmen, then yes it would help compensate the Turks.
    Getting into the EU has been a Turkish dream for the last 50 years.
    But US support of Turkish EU membership is nothing new, it actually probably harms the Turks' membership bid.
    Just think of De Gaulle's 'Non' to us because of our relationship with the Yanks in the 1960s.
  5. Yeah, I agree on that. No one tells us who should be or not be in the EU. Enlargement is not something that's worth sacrificing the basic of human rights.

    And watching video's of turkish police kicking the sh*te out of weomen demonstrating for equal rights does not make me think that Turkey is ready for membership of the EU.

    An internal veto is a different matter. Politics as usual.
  6. Nearly all the Turkmen who worked in the Baath Party security apparatus were from Tel Afar and are anti-Kurd. As a result the city is every much a Sunni/Baath city as any in al Anbar.
  7. Edited because last night's post was cr*p and irrelevant :wink:
  8. So? I didn't realise the overthow of Saddam meant ethnically cleansing Northern Iraq for the Kurds.
    Who cares if they may have worsened the Situation in Tal Afar, themselves. No doubt you feel that the Peshmerga were just enjoying the wonders of freedom when they launched attacks on groups like the Assyrians and the Turkmen. If the Kurdish/US axis is so worried about insurgents in the Turkman city of Tal Afar, why don't they just invite the Turks to deal with the situation?
    Next stop Kirkuk - where I hear the insurgency is really hotting up :roll:

    Are you sure your not getting confused with the Kurds here? Women have it pretty easy in Turkey.

    Now excuse my head of steam but have the Armenians done recently ?
  9. I think Bombard is refering to a news clip of Turkish police charging a women's protest a few months ago???

    I don't know the whole story behind the legality or otherwise of the protest but the tactics were no more agressive than we in the EU use on the anti-globalise etc groups...

  10. yeah, thats the one Tricam. It was a group of 'feminists' asking for equal treatment on international womans day last year, and was baton charged, with some of the weomen being kicked in the head.
  11. Ah the one in Beyazit square? - it was illegal and the police were rather jumpy about he official EU official delegation that was arriving the same day. The Turkish police are a law unto themselves I remember coming out of the Greek Patriarch's place in Istanbul only to be greeted by a large group of riot police waiting to kick the c**p out of some conservatives.
    Turkish women compared to other Muslim countries have comparative equality in the law, though this often not the case in the rural heart lands were conservative traditions and attitudes still thrive.
  12. A unarmed, peaceful demonstration was 'Illegal' and deserved the living sh*te to be kicked out of it?

    Turkish police are a law unto themselves?

    And tell me, how does this strenghen a argument that Turkey should be left into a Democratic, Equal human rights respecting group of nations?

    I'm dont care how turkish weomen are treated by comparision to other muslim countries. I care how they are treated by comparison with French, Italian, British, Irish, Portugese, Slovenian, Czech, Polish, Finnish, German, Austrian, Slovak, Belgian, Dutch, Danish, Hungarian, Bulgarian Lithuanian, Maltese, Cretan, Greek.

    Bt all means, recognise the advantages that weomen have in Turkey bt comparision to Saudi Arabia. But thats still not the European standard.

    Caveat: European Countries are not perfect. There are human rights issues in most countries.
  13. Wasn't condoning the Turkish police at all and I was talking in comparison to other EU countries.

    But I wouldn't be so high and mighty about the respect for female rights in the EU. Look at the Czech Republic and their appalling treatment of Roma women! Disgusting treatment that still continues after the Czechs joined the EU.The only mitigating to say on the Czechs' behalf is that the Roma in Slovakia face probably more harsher conditions. Lets also remember that the Czech only instituted a domestic violence law months before their joining of the EU. In Poland, you have rampant child prostitution, discrimination againts ethnic minorities which also still continues. Inaddition in a lot of the new member countries:) e.g. Eastern European countries, the baltic states) in the more rural parts very conservative attitudes remain. Also if we argue that Abortion is a female human right then countries like: Ireland and Portugual may have problems. - Especially in Portugal where they seem to take great glee in prosecuting abortion doctors.

    I personally did not believe that any of the 10 new members of the EU should have joined in 2004, it was too premature.
    I don't think we should rule out of membership for Turkey but if we are to rule it out lets not do it on subtle prejudices masquerading as concern for human rights.

    PS: Can we get back to Tal Afar ?
  14. I suggest you open a new thread "Why should Turkey become an EU member?"

    Meanwhile you can return to this thread , that was developing nicely.