Bid To Outlaw Nazi Symbols throughout EU

#1
From Guardian via MOD Oracle
Bid To Outlaw Nazi Symbols

Tuesday, January 16, 2007

Germany yesterday moved to outlaw denial of the Holocaust, the parading of Nazi symbols, and racist speech across Europe, using a meeting of EU interior and justice ministers to call for jail terms of up to three years for the offences.

At a meeting in Dresden in eastern Germany, Brigitte Zypries, the German justice minister, demanded that Holocaust denial and the sporting of Nazi symbols be criminalised across the EU.

A European commission official noted that had the practices been outlawed earlier, Prince Harry would have been in breach of the law in 2005 when he was photographed in a Wehrmacht uniform with a Nazi swastika armband.

Europe-wide criminalisation of Holocaust denial would also have meant that David Irving, the discredited British historian recently released from a Vienna jail after being found guilty of denying the Holocaust, could have been imprisoned in Britain.
The proposals from the German government are supported by Franco Frattini, the EU commissioner for justice, said a commission spokeswoman, although she added that detailed definition of the proposed offences should be left to EU countries to decide individually and that there would be guarantees that "personal freedoms will not be violated".

Another commission official said that Sweden, for example, whose constitution guarantees absolute freedom of speech, could be granted an opt-out if the EU-wide criminalisation was agreed.

Germany has just started a six-month presidency of the EU and is pushing strongly to outlaw statements and actions trivialising Nazi crimes and the Holocaust. "We believe there are limits to freedom of expression," said Mrs Zypries.

The European commission says that in a time of growing Islamophobia, racism, and hostility to foreigners across Europe, a decision to criminalise hate speech and praise of Nazi crimes would send a strong signal. But attempts to ban Holocaust denial across the EU have failed on two previous occasions. It is not clear whether the new German campaign will succeed where earlier attempts have failed.

Berlin also sought to expand Europe-wide police powers, calling for the sharing of DNA, fingerprinting and car registration information among the 27 countries of the EU and for greater transnational powers for Europol, the Hague-based European police agency, in tackling major crime.

At the moment, Europol, which some see as a fledgling European FBI, is empowered to deal only with organised crime on a transnational scale, but the German proposals would expand that scope to include all "serious" cross-border crime within the EU.

Max-Peter Ratzel, the Europol director, embraced the German proposals, saying it was sensible to expand the genetic and fingerprinting information. At the moment the countries participating in the scheme share national police access to car registration data banks and are also obliged to supply DNA and fingerprinting information on suspects to other national police forces when requested. "Our aim is to create a modern police information network for more effective crime control throughout Europe," said Wolfgang Schouble, the German interior minister.

The German government, outlining its aims for the six-month EU presidency, declared that "a priority is to strengthen Europol ... extending the scope of the organisation's responsibilities."

The British government has habitually been reluctant to accede to expansion of Europol's powers. The Irish and some of the new east European members are also sceptical.

European ultra-nationalists and extreme rightwingers yesterday mustered enough MPs in the European parliament to form their first formal parliamentary caucus, a move that will increase their profile, lend them greater parliamentary speaking time, make available EU funding, and probably net them prominent positions in parliamentary committees.

The Identity-Tradition-Sovereignty caucus numbers 20 MEPs, and includes members from Belgium, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, one Briton formerly with the UK Independence party, and Alessandra Mussolini, granddaughter of the Italian fascist dictator.

The caucus is led by the No 2 in France's National Front and masterminded by Andreas Molzer, an Austrian extreme right ideologue who used to advise Jorg Haider, the Austrian politician who gained notoriety as Europe's first "yuppie fascist".

Social democrat and liberal MEPs demanded the rest of the parliament boycott contact with the new caucus.
So the Germans want to impose their thinking and attitudes across the rest of Europe because of their guilt over the last world war. Is their a word in German for irony?
 
#2
Nothing like millions dying for democracy only to have freedoms curtailed half a century later.

Symbols only have power if we believe they mean something, and our personal emotional response should not be subject to or restricted by any country's legislation.
 
#3
EX_STAB said:
So the Germans want to impose their thinking and attitudes across the rest of Europe because of their guilt over the last world war. Is their a word in German for irony?
Ironically it is in fact Ironie!
 
#5
drain_sniffer said:
I believe the Swastika is some form of religious symbol to some Indian religion
Yes it is, but it's opposite-handed if that makes any sense.
 
#6
EX_STAB said:
So the Germans want to impose their thinking and attitudes across the rest of Europe because of their guilt over the last world war. Is their a word in German for irony?
Don't know, but 'hovercraft' is 'luftkissenfahrzeug' :biggrin:
 
#7
drain_sniffer said:
I believe the Swastika is some form of religious symbol to some Indian religion
Even earlier in fact. Prehistoric examples are known throughout Europe and beyond. It sounds like the worlds museums and my Airfix model collection are going to be purged.


[Edited for pisspoor spelling]
 
#8
drain_sniffer said:
I believe the Swastika is some form of religious symbol to some Indian religion
Mirror image is Hindu/Buddhist symbol.

Edited to add:
Just googled it out of interest - apparenly in Taiwan it's used as a symbol for 'temple', in China it appears on food packaging to indicate vegetarian food, and is common in many parts of Asia. :cyclopsani:
 
#9
drain_sniffer said:
I believe the Swastika is some form of religious symbol to some Indian religion
I hope they don't come after the swastika embossed silk shirt I picked up whilst working in Calcutta a number of years ago!

I've also stayed in a hotel with a balcony, featuring a huge swastika into the masonary above the door. (Don't mention the war!)
 
#10
milsum said:
drain_sniffer said:
I believe the Swastika is some form of religious symbol to some Indian religion
Mirror image is Hindu/Buddhist symbol.

Edited to add:
Just googled it out of interest - apparenly in Taiwan it's used as a symbol for 'temple', in China it appears on food packaging to indicate vegetarian food, and is common in many parts of Asia. :cyclopsani:
Does that mean we can lock up Vegetarian's? Oh I do hope so.
 
#12
milsum said:
drain_sniffer said:
I believe the Swastika is some form of religious symbol to some Indian religion
Mirror image is Hindu/Buddhist symbol.
It's otherwise known as a fylfot and has been used either way round in scores of cultures for ever. Derives from Sanskrit FFS! More here

The German's ought to have learned by now to mind their own business.
 
#13
drain_sniffer said:
milsum said:
drain_sniffer said:
I believe the Swastika is some form of religious symbol to some Indian religion
Mirror image is Hindu/Buddhist symbol.

Edited to add:
Just googled it out of interest - apparenly in Taiwan it's used as a symbol for 'temple', in China it appears on food packaging to indicate vegetarian food, and is common in many parts of Asia. :cyclopsani:
Does that mean we can lock up Vegetarian's? Oh I do hope so.
Oh if only the Germans had kept a certain vegetarian locked up!
 
#14
Any attempt to irradicate the image will simply strengthen its appeal to the pond life of the far right.

A foolish approach - the Germans need to move on and find something else to brow beat themselves about.
 
#15
Balderdash_and_Piffle said:
Does that mean I can no longer do my "Adolf Hitler" bit for fancy dress parties?
I've attended a few parties as Eva before. Always raises a few eyebrows. Not as much as when I went as Winnie Mandella though, great fun, my mate who went as Nelson kept getting handbagged!
 
#16
The Germans got Fcuked over in 2 world wars so they had a re-think on their stratgy. Along the lines of how can we run europe without the pain? Some bright spark said, "Lets do it the political/economic route." Less pain more power. Just get the french on side and we're onto a winner!! Plus we'll be able to expand as much as we want! I bet their laughing now. Just a thought.
 

TheIronDuke

ADC
Book Reviewer
#17
Well when they come to nick Ilkley Moor for hosting the prehistoric Swastika Stone there will be warm words exchanged one imagines?



You can see how the sausage addicted thigh slappers might be a tad sensitive about swastikas in their streets, since it didnt pan out too well for them last time. But anyone want to take bets on the likelyhood of a swastika parade in the UK making it out of the street in one piece?

Do one, perfidious Hun.
 
#18
Ziss iss not acczeptable! Zey are taking avay unt important part of hiztory.

Zey cannot brush ze history unter ze carpet unt expunge it zimply by vishing it avay!

Vat var?
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#19
Cuddles said:
EX_STAB said:
So the Germans want to impose their thinking and attitudes across the rest of Europe because of their guilt over the last world war. Is their a word in German for irony?
Ironically it is in fact Ironie!

Does that mean the miltaria seller on Portobello Road won't be able to sell anymore Ironie Crosses?
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#20
I have no truck with fascists, my old man fought against them, and frankly most of them (both past and present) seem to be completely barking, but shortly after - in Greece and later Korea - my Dad was fighting against the commies (and later we waited for years in BAOR to do the same thing). They are surely equally bad, and did some pretty damn evil things (Katyn, Gulags, 'Great Leap Forward', Cultural Revolution, Korean War, etc., etc).

So, I presume that they will ban all symbology deveoted to the far-left cult of communism, that must have been responsible for an equal (or probably greater) number of deaths?
 

Latest Threads

Top