BFG Legal Beagles

Discussion in 'Finance, Property, Law' started by Northern Monkey, Dec 1, 2008.

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  1. I'm after some legal advice on a professional basis in relation to drink drive procedures and their application in BFG. Are there any legal eagles in the house?

    And no, I have not been caught drink-driving!!!
  2. I am in da house....

    but i dont know much about military law of law of any other jurisdiction, so i dont know how much help i would be, i will try if i can though.
  3. I know someone who was banned in BFG for boozing and cruising in the early 90s, he was banned from driving in BFG, but was able to drive once he'd crossed any border as it was dealt with through the Regt.
  4. Still the case, I believe Fred. Judge, thanks for the offer but I've found the info I wanted.

    Thanks again
  5. I used to train Rumpers, having done LION course if that helps, now old bill so still current.
  6. Up until the early 90s BFG pers used to drive on a BFG Driving License.
    This changed to the BFG Driving Permit some time in the early 90s. Under the BFG Driving License system you could be banned in BFG but the minute you got out of BFG (posted, cse, leave) you were legal to drive under your UK Driving License. One bloke I know who got caught in 1989 was desperate for a posting back to UK to prevent him loosing all his trade pay.
  7. I know of a guy who, as a driver was equally desperate to stay in BFG for the LOA, so convinced his wife, who was also in the car at the same time, to TRY to take the blame. Wonker.
  8. IIRC the BFG system was such that a Military Court (CO or DCM) could remove a person's BFG driving permit but had no such jurisdiction over a UK driving licence. It was sometimes the case that a posting back to the UK would follow a conviction, which was a secondary 'fine' with the loss of LOA, etc.

    If the offence was committed on military premises the RMP would deal in its entirety, however, if the offence was committed on a public highway it was the luck of the draw whether you were caught by RMP or German Civil Police (GCP). The net result was still the same as the RMP would ultimately deal with the case, using either their own evidence or that from the GCP. I do not recall any cases that went before the German Civil Courts.

    There was a case in NI where a JNCO got totally hat-racked and drove through camp, taking out about 6 cars in the process. RMP have no drink-driving powers in the UK (including NI) and were unable to process him and the RUC would not deal with it as the offence had occurred on military premises. He got off with the DD but as far as I recall got a slapped wrist under S.69.
  9. I believe that there is a para in the MT JSP (cant remember the number) that states if the UL driving licence has been purchased by the MoD on behalf of the serviceman then they can remove his UK licence. If he paid the fees himself then it cant be removed.

    Also where a foreign ban has been imposed (ie caught driving abroad or down the Falklands etc) then the their FMT can be removed for the period of the ban, even if UK licence has not been or cannot be endorsed.

    The Falklands was the same but we had powers of FI Constables so it was easy to process Service Personnel or civilians, however the travelling Judge couldnt touch their UK licence and were given very hefty fines and kicked off the Island!
  10. I don't think that is true once a driving license had been issued it has nothing more to do with the MOD, A JSP has would not be applicable.
  11. SlimeyToad
    The majority of mil bks are not public roads and therefore the majority will not come under the provisions of the Road Traffic Acts (incl Drink Driving) - or so I was informed a few years ago (and whilst it sounds dodgy I can see the logic).
    This is why the majority of Regt / Stations / Garrisions have in their Standing Orders the Drink Driving Offence with the levels set the same as UK law. BFG SOs are good example of this where RMP can do pers for Drink driving on camp where the GCP would not be able to.
    However I do not know the situation if a CO invited civ police onto a bks to conduct tests. I have seen a camp in BFG that had it's own speed gun to get pers who were speeding. However they got around the legal mine field on calibration etc by simply removing car passes from persistant offenders (3rd hit) thus banning them from driving on camp - right bitch if you lived on camp (single and married pers did) !
  12. I doubt that a camp had its own speed gun, unless you're talking about one of those devices that displays your speed as you approach. RMP in Germany have their own speed guns and you have to be trained to use it. The device should be calibrated before each use using its own equipment. The device will also be professionally calibrated each year by the manufacturer. There is no legal minefield.

    The issue with these devices is the amount of paperwork required to report a driver to their CO, and the fact that the range of penalties can be quite wide. I personally would prefer the ability of RMP to issue spot fines. There is nothing technically preventing the invitation of GCP onto camp to do joint patrols with RMP and them issuing spot fines.
  13. Leconfield used to have civpol conduct random breath tests on the learner drivers just before they left the gates. If you were over the limit you did not face police charges, you were however immediately RTU and faced military charges.
  14. Hardly a random breath test of the reasons for not prosecuting.
  15. As you had to use a breathalyzer and as no-one knew when they were going to turn up it I'd say it was a random breath test.
    They had an agreement with the CO to come onto camp, if they wanted convictions they could have stood 5 metres outside of the camp gates and conducted the tests there.