Berets

#1
Why is it that the majority of the newly formed regiments are to have the brown beret when many of their founding regiments had blue. For example of the Duke of Lancasters forming regiments two had blue berets: Kings, and the QLR. Also neither of the two regiments making up the Royal welsh had brown, they were both blue. In the new order of battle only two regiments will have blue RRF and Mercians. Anyone shed some light on this? is it a subtle move towards a corps of infantry?
 
#3
Might be thats all they have in stock at the moment? ?
 
#4
I think the original idea behind the khaki beret were to clearly define Infantry from other Arms and Services, the majority of whom wore the Midnight Blue (official term) beret.

Back in the late 1970's/early 1980's the Guards and Royal Anglians went khaki as did several of the King's Div - the King's Regiment, Green Howards, Duke of Wellington Regiment, Prince of Wales's Own Regiment of Yorkshire as did the Territorial Yorkshire Volunteers and the HAC.

It was mooted that the whole of the Queen's Div would also go khaki in about 1982 but the Queen's Regiment and RRF vetoed the idea.

When I was doing my PSBC in 1985 a Kingo got a b*ll**king by one of the DS for wearing a khaki beret as the new Colonel of the Regiment had changed it back to blue while he was at Brecon.

When we rebadged to PWRR in 1992 both the Queen's and Royal Hampshires swopped blue for Khaki.
 

elovabloke

ADC
Moderator
#6
crow_bag said:
I always thought originally all infantry had khaki berets, but armoured regiments had blue.

Our 2nd Battalion in WW2 were tankies and had blue berets while the 1st Battalion were infantry and had khaki.

Or i could be taling out of my arse, it's hard to tell
RTR are armoured and do not wear a blue beret and hopefully never will :twisted:
 
#7
crow_bag said:
I always thought originally all infantry had khaki berets, but armoured regiments had blue.

Our 2nd Battalion in WW2 were tankies and had blue berets while the 1st Battalion were infantry and had khaki.

Or i could be taling out of my arse, it's hard to tell
You are right about the khaki beret, it was introduced first to motor battalions, then the infantry in general (around 1943/44) and eventually most of the army, replacing the field service cap (sidecap) and the wartime GS cap (kind of Tam O' Shanter type thing). However all armoured regiments in WW2 wore black berets (from July 1941), the only type in the system at the beginning of the war. After the war the dark-blue beret was introduced as the standard- except for RTR (who reclaimed black as their own), Paras and SAS (maroon), Commandos (green). Over the years other colours have been introduced or in the case of khaki and SAS sand re-introduced.

Edit: KRH and their predecessors have used the rust-coloured beret since the 1930s, but this getting really off-topic now.
 
#8
When I was in training in IJLB in82/83 many of the Regiments (Mainly Kings Div I think) Changed one day they all had blue the next Kaki. The reason was explained that the reason was that the Kaki beret was more tactical. When my old regiment (Queen’s) amalgamated into the PWRR they adapted the Kaki and took the tactical bit even further (I don’t know if this was the official reason) by issuing a subdued Bronze Cap badge for where in the Beret and a shiny one of their # 2 dress caps.

Despite the fact that it could be seen as one step further to a corps of infantry many people believe it is the way ahead. But I am of the opinion that you more chance of making Homosexuality compulsory than getting the Fusiliers, Para’s or LI/RGJ/Rifles give up their respective Distinctive head gear.
 

oldbaldy

LE
Moderator
#10
diehard57 said:
I think the original idea behind the khaki beret were to clearly define Infantry from other Arms and Services, the majority of whom wore the Midnight Blue (official term) beret.

Back in the late 1970's/early 1980's the Guards and Royal Anglians went khaki as did several of the King's Div - the King's Regiment, Green Howards, Duke of Wellington Regiment, Prince of Wales's Own Regiment of Yorkshire as did the Territorial Yorkshire Volunteers and the HAC.

It was mooted that the whole of the Queen's Div would also go khaki in about 1982 but the Queen's Regiment and RRF vetoed the idea.

When I was doing my PSBC in 1985 a Kingo got a b*ll**king by one of the DS for wearing a khaki beret as the new Colonel of the Regiment had changed it back to blue while he was at Brecon.

When we rebadged to PWRR in 1992 both the Queen's and Royal Hampshires swopped blue for Khaki.
They gave me a khaki one in 1971.
 
#12
Khaki is easier to keep clean 8)
 
#13
crow_bag said:
elovabloke said:
crow_bag said:
I always thought originally all infantry had khaki berets, but armoured regiments had blue.

Our 2nd Battalion in WW2 were tankies and had blue berets while the 1st Battalion were infantry and had khaki.

Or i could be taling out of my arse, it's hard to tell
RTR are armoured and do not wear a blue beret and hopefully never will :twisted:
My Grandad was in the 2nd Battalion in WW2 and his service books and stuff have him as being in the Royal Armoured Corp, however the only pictures i have of him are black and white so it's hard to determine the colour of his hat, but it was either blue or black with a grenade
Like I wrote above all RAC units wore black berets in the war. Post-war the RTR again became the only wearers of black berets.
 
#14
tich23 said:
PWRR "tactical badge" was in deference to the Hampshire Regiment, whose badges/buttons etc were "bronze"
If I remember rightly, the 37th/67th adopted this circa 1898 to stop Boer snipers aiming for the glint of the capbadge.
 
#15
I got pi##ed when the AGC were given the green beret similar to the Cypress Green worn by the Int Corps. Previously Pay, APTC etc all had blue berets the same as other support arms. Now you have light green berets all over the place! :roll:
 
#17
intli said:
I got pi##ed when the AGC were given the green beret similar to the Cypress Green worn by the Int Corps. Previously Pay, APTC etc all had blue berets the same as other support arms. Now you have light green berets all over the place! :roll:
I thought the AGC getting Green berets was just a certain Generals (Para) way of p***ng the commando's off.

I know the two shades are not quite the same when seen together but apart they are quite close.

Cardinal
 
#18
fally_highlander said:
Sapukay said:
tich23 said:
PWRR "tactical badge" was in deference to the Hampshire Regiment, whose badges/buttons etc were "bronze"
If I remember rightly, the 37th/67th adopted this circa 1898 to stop Boer snipers aiming for the glint of the capbadge.


WERE YOU THERE?
Well, my brain has never been evacuated by a South African with a rifle. Still time for that in the near future though....

(Cue tuneless rendition of the Farmer's Boy)
 
#19
For anyone interested in the idiosyncracies of British military dress a book worth reading is "Badge Backings and Special Embellishments of the British Army" (ISBN 0 9514342 0 9) published by The Ulster Defence Regiment Benevolent Fund in 1990. It really is a mine of information as most of the facts in there were supplied by the Regimental Museums which makes them fairly reliable.
 
#20
FEASG said:
When I was in training in IJLB in82/83 many of the Regiments (Mainly Kings Div I think) Changed one day they all had blue the next Kaki. The reason was explained that the reason was that the Kaki beret was more tactical. When my old regiment (Queen’s) amalgamated into the PWRR they adapted the Kaki and took the tactical bit even further (I don’t know if this was the official reason) by issuing a subdued Bronze Cap badge for where in the Beret and a shiny one of their # 2 dress caps.

Despite the fact that it could be seen as one step further to a corps of infantry many people believe it is the way ahead. But I am of the opinion that you more chance of making Homosexuality compulsory than getting the Fusiliers, Para’s or LI/RGJ/Rifles give up their respective Distinctive head gear.
I seem to remember that the 'infantry' brown beret was pushed very heavily by Gen Thorne when he was DInf in the mid-80s. He also introduced the PSBC / SCNC and Grade 1 infantrymen's bayonet badges by way of recognising infantry special to arm training. I believe that the Guards were planning to move to a greatcoat grey beret should the fish and chip infantry move lock stock to brown berets. The DWR and GREEN HOWARDS changed beret colours at this time - I assume as part of this overall initiative. That said, the intention was only to replace the dark blue beret, though I guess the hackle goes better with a dark blue rather than a brown beret.
 
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