Benefits of High Speed Rail project exaggerated, secret report reveals

giatttt

War Hero
Well see, the point was the Government stated that bus services would replace the trains. But the minimal usage that was presented didn’t warrant the bus services, that’s why they never got them. That forced people into cars. Here’s the paradox. Because they were forced to have cars the bus services that were introduced didn’t pay and people got used to the convenience of travelling when they wanted to
IIRC part of the government plan was the people no longer able to rely on trains would go out and buy cars thus supporting the British car industry. The British car industry recognised this and chose to answer it by pumping out the same old designs and anticipated milking the cash cow. That did not go entirely to plan with the arrival of things like the Datsun Cherry and more advanced offerings from Europe.
 
The British car industry recognised this and chose to answer it by pumping out the same old designs and anticipated milking the cash cow.
In general yes, but one forgets the historic fact that all British designs had horsepower tax in mind because of course the Polloi were not meant to own cars. That HP tax was meant to prevent people owning cars, hence a hell of a lot owned bikes or sidecar combos. Now by the time we're talking in the Early sixties we were already thinking of the common market and the Rich were importing Mercs, Facel Vegas etc from unrestricted designers. The car industry was broadly 3 years away from Nationalisation and didn't have the money to invest in that short time and we went decimal from 71 which made imports cheaper. Poor old car industry really didn't have much of a chance in comparison for the Bright young things. Down with British is basically a Europe complex and it achieved it's aim of killing what British competition there was whilst Labour dealt with the complexities of the 'e' in concord.
Now consider- in the new towns that were built how many houses had proper Garage sized Lock ups?
 

giatttt

War Hero
Now consider- in the new towns that were built how many houses had proper Garage sized Lock ups?

Thanks for the brief on HP tax, that's prompted some reading.

The size of an Austin 1300 or Vauxhall Viva seems to have dictated the size off all garaged built by the big housebuilders ever since. I guess when they designed the new towns they started with a quick survey of current car ownership and neglected to think of the effect people moving to the new towns would have on ownership percentages.
 
Thanks for the brief on HP tax, that's prompted some reading.

The size of an Austin 1300 or Vauxhall Viva seems to have dictated the size off all garaged built by the big housebuilders ever since. I guess when they designed the new towns they started with a quick survey of current car ownership and neglected to think of the effect people moving to the new towns would have on ownership percentages.
Front gardens are now largely a thing of the past. What at one time would have been a pleasant adornment to any suburban street has now been give over to hard standings build to accommodate several cars. This phenomenon is particularly apparent in predominantly Asian areas.
 
Front gardens are now largely a thing of the past. What at one time would have been a pleasant adornment to any suburban street has now been give over to hard standings build to accommodate several cars. This phenomenon is particularly apparent in predominantly Asian areas.
Also an Eastern European phenomenon.... One house, two bedrooms, six residents and four cars...
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
Front gardens are now largely a thing of the past. What at one time would have been a pleasant adornment to any suburban street has now been give over to hard standings build to accommodate several cars. This phenomenon is particularly apparent in predominantly Asian areas.

Few of the thousands of new builds going up around me have front gardens, they all have a paved parking area and a bin store.
 
Anyone remember something called " Crossrail " ?
Whatever happened to it ?


Crossrail Ltd plans to bring the Elizabeth line into passenger service as soon as practically possible in the first half of 2022. 
Delivery of the Elizabeth line is now in its complex final stages. The project is currently operating timetabled train movements in the central operating section, known as Trial Running, and has handed over more than half of the new stations to Transport for London.
 
Anyone remember something called " Crossrail " ?
Whatever happened to it ?
Like any major infrastructure project, way over budget & years late.
But fascinating watching any of the documentaries about its construction.
TBM boring between an existing sewer & an existing tube tunnel with little leeway each side. And computer controlled lasers above ground to monitor any shift in buildings.
Amazing.
 

RBMK

LE
Book Reviewer
UK rail signalling is totally bizarre. One of my mates is a former signalling contractor / consultant who used to work for Siemens.

We have some trains which still operate on 50 year old legacy systems including a number of trains built over 50 years ago (Class 20s, 37s, built in the 1960s, and Class 150 / 153 / 155/ 156 / 158 DMUs built in the early 80s) many of which have not had any significant upgrades.

These can't work, or else have severe speed and operating restrictions when working on lines such as Crossrail which will have GPS enabled train monitoring etc. Crossrail and HS1/2 trains have "Rail Technical Strategy" (RTS) specification controls, including in-cab signalling/communication with satellite and European Train Control System level 3 technologies.

There are still lines relying on signal boxes with old fashioned signal levels communicating by bells. This includes the Manchester / Llandudno line from Warrington to Chester.
 
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There are still lines relying on signal boxes with old fashioned signal levels communicating by bells. This includes the Manchester / Llandudno line from Warrington to Chester.
Again I am reminded of the first programme in the radio series Things We Forgot To Remember, which included an anecdote from the time of Dr Beeching, where British Rail (or whomever) invited a German delegation to visit, and proudly showed them around one of the busiest marshalling yards/rail junctions in the London area.

At least one member of the German group came away from the visit under the impression that they had just been shown around an excellent Rail Museum . . . .
 
At least one member of the German group came away from the visit under the impression that they had just been shown around an excellent Rail Museum . . . .
Bearing in mind they had the latest technology due to a slight disagreement that wouldn't surprise me. Of course what that iriot Beeching did was to close a hell of a lot of Marshalling yards cos of course his Mate Marples had the answer.
 
Again I am reminded of the first programme in the radio series Things We Forgot To Remember, which included an anecdote from the time of Dr Beeching, where British Rail (or whomever) invited a German delegation to visit, and proudly showed them around one of the busiest marshalling yards/rail junctions in the London area.

At least one member of the German group came away from the visit under the impression that they had just been shown around an excellent Rail Museum . . . .
Many years ago we got a gig to refurb a Lufthansa A320. The rep and his mates were laughing their bollocks off at our '50s era GSE and... er... techniques. You want hi-tech? Should've gone to KLM. I suppose we were cheap.
 

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