BEME to be upgraded to Lt Col

Discussion in 'Officers' started by ArtVeh88, Jun 23, 2005.

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  1. REME Bn CO's are to take over the BEME role in preparation for REME and RLC SO1's taking over the role of DCOS within a Bde HQ in the 'future'. This is being trialled in Germany and has proved to be successful in both 7 Bde and 20 Bde. Comd ES has won a major coup for the Loggie/ES boys here, without a battle.

    It's about time we had the right guys doing the right jobs - Why should the Combat Arms deal with our issues ?




    An Artificer, by definition is a star.
     
  2. CGS

    CGS War Hero Moderator

    This should lead to the (proper) elevation of Log SP/ES issues in the Bde Comds thoughts and give him greater control over some of his vital issues, issues which are all to ofter thought by many staff as 'the black arts' or just plain dull!
     
  3. Last time I looked DCOS 20 was a Royal Anglian, and a bloody good bloke too.
     
  4. CGS

    CGS War Hero Moderator

    Mushroom,

    Don't get me wrong, I wasn't suggesting that the role of DCOS was not vital in itself! I see their work in the 'here and now' of logistics and in the '5'role to create the conditions etc...

    What I was really getting as was that when ES/Log supply chain needs to be managed, the best person to give a bit of punch where needed and to understand the nature of ES issues is someone whose career it is!
     
  5. A good development, I just hope it doesn't create future commanders who don't understand CSS and G4 issues.
     
  6. It does narrow down the list of Key SO2 appointments somewhat, but I'm sure that it'll work.
     
  7. Fine until the Comd turns round and finds CO REME trying to stick with TAC. BEME is back in DCOS empire beavering away making stuff work, I can't see the ego of a CO watching Guns and engrs having their MS moments in TAC without being there as well. As for DCOS being an SO1 - isn't this an age old argument since ROC that both COS and DCOS should be upgraded to SO1 to ensure the right experience levels. I have seen no evidence of this happening, and the general 1* belief is that SO2 is the right level for the appointment to stay. On another point: why should DCOS be restricted to RLC? Best man for the job in my book, and as we have to select at least one other career field than G3, I think it unfair to restrict the Bde Log jobs to RLC. Loggie stuff is dull, but there are some people who want to do it, are good at it, and don't come from a corps. The RLC have enough jobs for the boys/girls without tying up all the key DCOS appts as well.
     
  8. As I understand it, having talked to some of the people who claim 'input and authorship' for this idea, there will still be a DCOS at bde and Div level. The BSG as such will vanish and the Bde logistics will be handled be a Bde Log Regiment, currently based on 1GSR (log) and 2 CSR (log). DSG will vanish and the Log Brigade will be responsible for log matters upto the Bde Log Spt Regt. In essence one level of command will be taken out of the loop. I don't think that Bde DCOS will become RLC only appointments.
     
  9. We were told by our Pl Comd that the DCOS role will be filled by REME or RLC Lt Cols. One capbadge would command the CSS type Battalion whilst the other capbadge would do DCOS, then every two years the respective cap badges would revert to the other role. This is common knowledge in the REME and sounds like a good idea to me.

    By definition an Artificer is a star
     
  10. CGS

    CGS War Hero Moderator

    It isn't. Look at past form of, say 16 bde, where a certain BB Para major held the DCOS appt, and the COS was a BB line inf (QLR????) BB Maj...

    The BB list (soon to RIP) ensured that those 'top' or profile jobs went to those who really were up to it. For this reason, all the DCOS posts on the BB boards are E2, not E2c (tied CSS/RLC appts). Whilst the RLC chaps may have been the most eminently qualified, and therefore seemingly perfect for the job, they didn't automatically get it.
     
  11. That was my point. It currently isn't restricted, thereby letting quality fill the posts, so why should it become tied. (that said of course this years BB saw shenanigans when an Inf Offr was appointed DCOS of 102 Log Bde, and was informed 3 weeks later that the Bde Comd didn't want him, but an RLC Offr instead. Good to see the system works.....).
     
  12. The key point here is that the DCOS and COS appt in a Bde HQ needs to be a Staff College graduate (in my opinion). Next year we will see this training delivered at the OF 4 level. Therefore it follows that the appointments whihc the course trains an officer to undertake are linked to the rank of the new graduate. In the Fd Army and in junior staff appointments we have experienced the pain of Captains no longer doing JCSC prior to key appointments. I do not see the current ICSC course preparing an officer to be a Bde DCOS, therefore the rank must go up.

    As for making the appointment RLC/REME only, that would be a mistake and if it happens I am confident it wouldn't last long. These posts must be filled by those officers who demonstrate suitability and aptitude whilst at staff college.
     
  13. I see your logic, but the whole point of the new system is that the ICSC graduate will only reach the COS/DCOS job at their second bite of the cherry - after having done their initial grade 2 job and then command. In theory this makes them experienced enough to competently undertake a subsequent grade 2 job, such as COS/DCOS. If this is the case then there is no need to up the rank.
    I can see that there will be some who doubt the ability/training of non staff trained offrs to fill the posts, but minds greater than mine have designed the new system to work at the SO2 level - without upping the jobs to SO1.

    If you did up the rank when would an incumbent fill it? Before comd risking short tour to take up comd, because lets face it the brightest and best would be in line for both COS/DCOS and comd, or post comd when crusty, old and pushing on to better things?

    It makes more sense to keep these posts at SO2 level, IMO.
     
  14. napier

    napier LE Moderator Reviewer

    Now that we are seeing non-JCSC trained captains attempting demanding SO3 appointments, word coming back from Bdes/Divs is that many are failing to acheive the performance levels required due to lack of education and previous objective scrutiny of their capabilities. This is going to make the job of the COS/DCOS/branch SO2 harder. So, should the rank be upped, bearing in mind that Lt Cols are more inclined to delegate than majors (sweeping generalisation I know), or should more junior personnel be posted in to cope with the work (quantity vs quality)?