Below the medical standards to be retained by PAP 10

#1
I received confirmation this week through my chain of command, that I have been graded as below the minimum standard required to retained by my Corps and I am in a CEG of Comms Sys Op that is overly manned for Sgt's.

If I cannot find another Corps / Arms that will take me in my un-deployable capacity I will be medically discharged under the PAP 10.

I have seen the 12 year old boy aka as the AGC (Det Comdr), who tried to sell the resettlement package but he knew nothing of anything financial packages.

I had heard but not sure if its true that if you get medically discharged you get your wages as a lump sump as if it they were added together for your remaining service until your contract would be ended.

Thus for me a Sgt with 7 years remaining is nearly £240,000.
plus what ever pension is given...

Is there any truth to this?
Any guidance would help
 
#2
Gerbertoyd we have our postie being discharged under PAP 10 at present but the amount is no where near that much i will speak to him if he is in tomarrow and get back to you via pm topmarrow mate.

Sorry to hear about the lack of knoweledge being offered by the Det Comd, but surely the best person is the PAP 10 team and the IERO in your area, our one has recieved the briefing pack so it may be worth a call.

Spider
 
#3
No you don't get your wages as a lump sum. You effectively get an immediate pension on your date of Med discharge, even if you have not done 22 years pensionable service. You don;t get paid for any time that you have not done, so if you are 7 years short you only get 15/37th's of a full career pension for your rank.

It's then the DSS who decides whether your pension is tax free or not if your injury that get's you discharged is attributable to your Army Service. I am sure there are a few more finer details than this, but that is the majority of the details that you need to know.

No doubt our illustrious SPS will take you though - never give up hope
 
#4
Have a look at your other thread on this topic as I can't be bothered writing it twice. In fact don't, I'll cut and paste so that others can see!

It is my understanding that the PAP 10 process has been brought in to ensure that everyone employed in the Army is contributing something in their specific trade. If this is not possible then a person will be retained by the CoC if they are able to be employed elsewhere in the Regt for example, a driver as the RP Cpl etc... If this is not the case then a transfer to another trade within Corps is sought and should this not be possible a transfer to a new Cap Badge.

With out knowing the specifics of your case, if you are deemed fit for a transfer to a new role in a different capbadge yet they do not have space for you, it is unlikely you will get medically discharged from the Army. You are still deemed fit for service of some kind and therefore will be admin discharged and given your full resettlement entitlement and pension. If you are deemed not medically fit for service then you will be classified as the old P8 and only then medically discharged. As you have been given the option to transfer I'm guessing you are not being medically discharged.... I may be wrong.

In regards to the £240,000, I find it hard to believe that you will be given a lump sum which would dwarf a 3 Star Pension entitlement and a figure that is only comparible to the compensation given to RAF clerks with RSI of the fingers. As a Sgt you've got the sense to realise that you'll probably get what ever JPA gives you.

As I have said before, I may be wrong but I have had some experience with the unfortunate task of completeing the necessary PAP 10 paperwork for a few soldiers. If your Regt has a SAM clerk then go and see them otherwise email all of your questions to your AO or OC. It isn't a case of the Army is against you and everybody should aim to keep you fully informed.
 
#5
Have a look at your other thread on this topic as I can't be bothered writing it twice. In fact don't, I'll cut and paste so that others can see!

It is my understanding that the PAP 10 process has been brought in to ensure that everyone employed in the Army is contributing something in their specific trade. If this is not possible then a person will be retained by the CoC if they are able to be employed elsewhere in the Regt for example, a driver as the RP Cpl etc... If this is not the case then a transfer to another trade within Corps is sought and should this not be possible a transfer to a new Cap Badge.

With out knowing the specifics of your case, if you are deemed fit for a transfer to a new role in a different capbadge yet they do not have space for you, it is unlikely you will get medically discharged from the Army. You are still deemed fit for service of some kind and therefore will be admin discharged and given your full resettlement entitlement and pension. If you are deemed not medically fit for service then you will be classified as the old P8 and only then medically discharged. As you have been given the option to transfer I'm guessing you are not being medically discharged.... I may be wrong.

In regards to the £240,000, I find it hard to believe that you will be given a lump sum which would dwarf a 3 Star Pension entitlement and a figure that is only comparible to the compensation given to RAF clerks with RSI of the fingers. As a Sgt you've got the sense to realise that you'll probably get what ever JPA gives you.

As I have said before, I may be wrong but I have had some experience with the unfortunate task of completeing the necessary PAP 10 paperwork for a few soldiers. If your Regt has a SAM clerk then go and see them otherwise email all of your questions to your AO or OC. It isn't a case of the Army is against you and everybody should aim to keep you fully informed.

At the bottom of the PAP 10 it has the minimum standards required for each of the Corps /Arms I fall below the minimum required for entry but some of the definitions used from PAP 10 such as:

Worthwhile Role.
is defined as the ability to perform useful military employment, for which an individual is suitable, qualified or can be reasonably trained.

Being a Royal Signals SNCO, holding several Military Qualifications I find it hard to believe that I cannot be employed even in an office role as a Recruiter...
 
#6
I received confirmation this week through my chain of command, that I have been graded as below the minimum standard required to retained by my Corps and I am in a CEG of Comms Sys Op that is overly manned for Sgt's.

If I cannot find another Corps / Arms that will take me in my un-deployable capacity I will be medically discharged under the PAP 10.

I have seen the 12 year old boy aka as the AGC (Det Comdr), who tried to sell the resettlement package but he knew nothing of anything financial packages.

I had heard but not sure if its true that if you get medically discharged you get your wages as a lump sump as if it they were added together for your remaining service until your contract would be ended.

Thus for me a Sgt with 7 years remaining is nearly £240,000.
plus what ever pension is given...

Is there any truth to this?
Any guidance would help
I have just phoned the JPAC helpline and spoke with a representative, she states that until i have gone through the Final Medical Board (FMB) and the level of payment has been agreed by the SPVA they are unable to tell me how much my pension is likely to be!

With an uncertain life ahead I am in the dark as to where to live would I be able to pay for a mortgage or look for council accommodation.
 
E

EScotia

Guest
#7
I have just phoned the JPAC helpline and spoke with a representative, she states that until i have gone through the Final Medical Board (FMB) and the level of payment has been agreed by the SPVA they are unable to tell me how much my pension is likely to be!

With an uncertain life ahead I am in the dark as to where to live would I be able to pay for a mortgage or look for council accommodation.
Nice to see JPAC giving sound advice for once. PAP 10 & the armed forces compensation scheme should be read together to get any idea of what lies ahead. Attributable injuries, % of disability etc are all covered.

A good look at the Charities/Welfare forum should give you somwthing of a heads up.
 
#8
I have been going through the PAP 10 process and recently received confirmation from my RCMO that i am being admin discharged on medical grounds in accordance with QRs 9.385. After speaking to JPAC to find out what pension i would be getting i was told that it needs to be a medical discharge to get a medical pension and that i would of needed to go infront of a med board, as i have not had a med board i fear i am going to get nothing after 15 years service. With my unit on standown for the next 3 weeks i feel this was dumped on me last thing now i'm losing valuable resettlement time.
Like gerbertoyd i feel it hard to believe that no job can be found for a soldier with 15 years of expierence,the job i am currently in is a key role in peace time and would still needed to be done on a rear party and someone will have to replace me once i'm gone.
How many more people will have there future's wrecked just because of the governments/MOD over spend over the last few years.
 
#9
How many more people will have there future's wrecked just because of the governments/MOD over spend over the last few years.
I'm afraid it's a case of "be careful what you wish for". Many on this site, myself included, had called for a review of Government spending: this is what we get!

Coincidentally I lost my role in the Public Sector as my employer could no longer afford to keep me on & because I had proved that what had been a 5 day a week post could be done in about a day-and-a-half. There was no incentive for efficiency.
 
#10
I'm afraid it's a case of "be careful what you wish for". Many on this site, myself included, had called for a review of Government spending: this is what we get!

Coincidentally I lost my role in the Public Sector as my employer could no longer afford to keep me on & because I had proved that what had been a 5 day a week post could be done in about a day-and-a-half. There was no incentive for efficiency.
Very true, I work in an environment currently that really only needs half the permanent staff that are currently drawing a wage!!!
 
#12
I "think" I've PMed you!
 
#13
Hi everyone.

All this PAP 10 is an excuse and tool for the MOD to reduce it's numbers yet say it's within the best interests of those personnel its shafting. I was given 4 months to resettle from notification to last paid day. My CO was willing to retain me but the Corps seems fit to reject the retention application and stiff me for a lower lump sum and pension still yet to be put in stone by SPVA.
I have completed the transfer request, which as with everyone else is denied and have submitted an App25 for appeal, yet to see outcome.
The MOD cannot carry on doing this to service personnel as i too have a mortgage and overheads that were based on a full career, I've done 18yrs and am now in the process of trying to plan the rest of my life in a 4 month window.

Shocking that we are all really a number and statistic
 
E

EScotia

Guest
#14
Hi everyone.

All this PAP 10 is an excuse and tool for the MOD to reduce it's numbers yet say it's within the best interests of those personnel its shafting. I was given 4 months to resettle from notification to last paid day. My CO was willing to retain me but the Corps seems fit to reject the retention application and stiff me for a lower lump sum and pension still yet to be put in stone by SPVA.
I have completed the transfer request, which as with everyone else is denied and have submitted an App25 for appeal, yet to see outcome.
The MOD cannot carry on doing this to service personnel as i too have a mortgage and overheads that were based on a full career, I've done 18yrs and am now in the process of trying to plan the rest of my life in a 4 month window.

Shocking that we are all really a number and statistic
The MoD attempts to do the best for individuals no longer deemed fit for service whilst maintaining the best interests of the services. No organisation can afford to keep people in employment that can no longer do the job they are employed to do just because they have a mortgage.

Harsh I know but I'm going through the same process and also expect to have interesting conversations with SPVA. The nature of my injury will not allow me to be employed by any other Arm or Corps and a fully sedentary job is not suitable either. I look forward to 4 months notice of termination as I look at it as another 4 months wages & 4 months added to the pension.

As the great Monty of Python said "Always look on the bright side of life"
 
#15
True i know and i realise the importance of maintaining a capable workforce but my argument is that the Regiment are willing to employ me in an operational training post, thus delivering a vital part of PDT. PAP 10 was never introduced to discharge those personnel that can still be employed, I have followed the guidance of the PAP 10 pamphlet and it states in black and white retention capabilities.
As for the 4 months notice, i disagree. It may-be 4 months pay but i based all on 22 years service, for an injury they created and admit to creating thats a loss of earnings and pension.
 
#16
does anyone know when going through this process and waiting for a operation (as in my case) if the PAP 10 process is put on hold when you have just been operated on, or goes away all together until you have recovered? I only ask as I am expecting to be told soon that I will be discharged but don't want my remaining time to be taken up recovering from an operation when I should be using it to gain employment on civvie st etc.

also does anyone on here know of any time frames for medical discharge? how long will the army give you, once a decision has been made, to get things sorted? is it only a few months?
 
#17
jimmyd,

Very difficult question to answer, as your discharge date depends upon different variables i.e your length of service (are you entitled to resettlement etc). Also, is your ROD fast approaching. If in doubt, speak to your CoC and ask them to request an extension of service from APC, if required, to facilitate your rehab and recovery.
 
#18
Another question. I am currently P7 MND, if the PAP10 process is initiated and on the off chance I get upgraded to P3 LD, what happens?
 
#19
Although MLD is a retainable grade, you still might end up being discharged. It's all down to your CO. If he can employ you, then great. However, if he can't employ you, then he could still initiate the App 22 RECU. If this happens, you should be fully briefed by the CO, RAO and RCMO on the potential outcome. I would strongly suggest you volunteer to transfer if this happens, because if you are discharged, then you would be entitled to some financial benefits and although it is an admin discharge on medical grounds, you would go out under QR's 9.385 and not QR's 9.414 (SNLR).
 
#20
Another question. I am currently P7 MND, if the PAP10 process is initiated and on the off chance I get upgraded to P3 LD, what happens?
at our place if you can get upgraded to limited deployable then the whole process is dropped, this was one of the first questions I was asked by my boss. he said to me ''is there any chance you can be upgraded to limited deployable, because if you can the whole PAP10 process goes away''. as i had just had my grading board to try and fight my perm grade the answer in my case was no!

not sure if this helps anyone out there going through PAP 10 at the moment, i was quite worried about what sort of pension i was going to get if/when medically discharged, so i wrote a letter to Glasgow pensions division and told them what had happened to me as in my injury and the process i was going through and asked for a forecast of a medical pension, about a month later i got a reply stating rough amounts i could expect. i gave them a projected discharge date and they calculated what i would get using this date. i was always told that glasgow could not forecast medical pensions. although its not 100% accurate, it still gives a rough idea of what people going through this process can expect to get pension wise. i think that's all people want just a rough idea of what finances they'll have come discharge.

below is a link my boss gave me off DII it explains a little about GIP payments and how they affect your pension on discharge.
 

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