Belarus

Now you're saying the refusal to acknowledge the Crimean plebiscite or the clear expression of the Donetsk Republicans means Western countries espouse the Muscovite Mindset?

Or is it just that only self-determination which disadvantages Russia is the right kind?
Now you are really revealing your true colours .............

Both your examples were internationally illegal land-grabs by Moscow, it then exploited its forceful position to achieve a result of popular support. The "Muscovite Mindset" manifested.
 
As regards people's countries. The Russian speaking people of the Baltic States were given a choice - they could stay and become citizens of the new countries that they found themselves in or they could return to the embrace of Moscow by leaving to go to Russia. Funnily enough the vast majority decided to stay.
Really? Not what I was told
 
Both your examples were internationally illegal land-grabs by Moscow, it then exploited its forceful position to achieve a result of popular support.
So the popular support doesn't actually matter and the expressed will of the people is a mere bagatelle?

When do you suggest we hand Kosovo back to Serbia, then?
 
The ethnic Russians seem to have definitively chosen.
The ethnic Russians in Germany have definitely chosen. None of them are in any kind of a hurry to return to Russia, not even for a holiday.
Then of course there's shed loads of Russian Jews in Israel.
 
The ethnic Russians in Germany have definitely chosen. None of them are in any kind of a hurry to return to Russia, not even for a holiday.
Then of course there's shed loads of Russian Jews in Israel.
Self determination in action. Now why don't we extend the same rights to the Russians who don't want their current ancestral lands to be part of Ukraine?
 
Now you're saying the refusal to acknowledge the Crimean plebiscite or the clear expression of the Donetsk Republicans means Western countries espouse the Muscovite Mindset?

Or is it just that only self-determination which disadvantages Russia is the right kind?
You seem to have difficulty differentiating between self-determination, and that of the (internationally recognised), nation state . . . and confuse the two ;) .
 
So the popular support doesn't actually matter and the expressed will of the people is a mere bagatelle?

When do you suggest we hand Kosovo back to Serbia, then?
As soon as possible !!
 
You seem to have difficulty differentiating between self-determination, and that of the (internationally recognised), nation state . . . and confuse the two ;) .
Not really, no. The UN Charter is quite explicit about the right belonging to peoples and not states - very few of which are nation-state else this issue wouldn't have arisen in the first place.

To put it simply, if the Kosovar people have the right to secede from Serbia without the permission of the Serbian government, why don't the Crimean people or the Donbass people have the same right with respect to Ukraine?
 
Not really, no. The UN Charter is quite explicit about the right belonging to peoples and not states - very few of which are nation-state else this issue wouldn't have arisen in the first place.

To put it simply, if the Kosovar people have the right to secede from Serbia without the permission of the Serbian government, why don't the Crimean people or the Donbass people have the same right with respect to Ukraine?
There are those that would disagree that Kosovans have "the right" to dismantle lands that were Serbian, before the Albanian Kosovans arrived . . . .
 
Someone I knew worked with a lot of Baltic states nationals that could not speak a word of the country their passport was issued. They only spoke Russian.
Whatever county you were in, when the wall came down, that was your county.
Latvia or Estonia will be next on the Russian hit list, due to the numbers that are Russian when NATO pulls out.

View attachment 551775
@RCT(V) why the Dumb?
 

Yokel

LE
Have you spoken to Vlad recently? Just asking for a freind

Hopefully not popping in for a cup of tea.....

didn't help in Ukraine did we? or Estonia, are we in Latvia?

Apart from the training and naval and air activities in the Black Sea region. NATO also provides air policing of Baltic airspace, has forces on the ground in the Baltic states, and has increased naval activity in the Baltic and Arctic regions.

The UK commits forces in all three environments, but rumoured cuts to frigate numbers could make that difficult.
 
So the popular support doesn't actually matter and the expressed will of the people is a mere bagatelle?

When do you suggest we hand Kosovo back to Serbia, then?

The will of the people is important. It shouldn't be confirmed at the end of a gun barrel.

I'm not talking about Kosovo (different parameters and conditions), but that's the line Moscow likes to parrot.
 
Not really, no. The UN Charter is quite explicit about the right belonging to peoples and not states - very few of which are nation-state else this issue wouldn't have arisen in the first place.

To put it simply, if the Kosovar people have the right to secede from Serbia without the permission of the Serbian government, why don't the Crimean people or the Donbass people have the same right with respect to Ukraine?

They didn't secede. The land was grabbed by Russian proxies who then organised a rigged/sham vote.
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
Hopefully not popping in for a cup of tea.....



Apart from the training and naval and air activities in the Black Sea region. NATO also provides air policing of Baltic airspace, has forces on the ground in the Baltic states, and has increased naval activity in the Baltic and Arctic regions.

The UK commits forces in all three environments, but rumoured cuts to frigate numbers could make that difficult.

it’s called ‘going through the motions’.

If the 76th Air Assault Division decided on a day trip to the coast from Pskov, we’ll harrumph a bit, then look for a squirrel to distract us.
 
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