Beirut Explosion, so what was it?

Was anyone in the CoC able to trace the IAF bloke responsible. A friend of mine and his cameraman were killed in Iraq by US Marines in an own goal. ITN identified them but there was no follow up.
Absolutely. when I get home later I'll post the link of the account and you can put it through Google translate. IIRR his promotion was delayed. We were told at the time that the error originated from the IAF's Ground liaison, although immediately prior to the dive his navigator did question whether that was the right target.
 
Bowen turned out to be the snowflake in the case you mention. Having recklessly tried to get a TV news scoop by having his Lebanese mate take them to a spot in between opposing forces in the middle of an unprecedented battle (Hezbollah advancing towards the Israeli border) he had a hissy fit when they took a hit.
On my first stint of reserve service
in the Chouf mountains our platoon
got caught between Druze and Phalangist militias as they started battling. I can see no possible justification for advancing into such a situation just to make a TV report.
We've had this discussion before - he accepts responsibility and has cited the incident as one of the triggers for his PTSD. I agree that it was a risky undertaking. However as I think I've mentioned before, the IDF shot and killed a colleague of mine at Rafar Camp. He was doing everything he could to show who he was but was hit by an aimed shot above his body armour.

On the other hand: don't point a camera at an AFV:

 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
He was doing everything he could to show who he was but was hit by an aimed shot above his body armour.

Hmm yes, tricky problem...

So what we need is a war where journalists can pretend to be in great danger, but where no nasty guns or bombs are flying around.

Maybe you could all report on paintball competitions instead?
 
We've had this discussion before - he accepts responsibility and has cited the incident as one of the triggers for his PTSD. I agree that it was a risky undertaking. However as I think I've mentioned before, the IDF shot and killed a colleague of mine at Rafar Camp. He was doing everything he could to show who he was but was hit by an aimed shot above his body armour.

On the other hand: don't point a camera at an AFV:

Your life insurance premium must be a few bob!!!
 
You need to check the Gini index.

The problem is that in Nabateyah and South Lebanon people are dirt poor.

A lot of the boats/villas/mercs etc belong to the Lebanese diaspora, who maintain second homes there whilst actually living in Europe or the States. They often import Syrian families to mind the fort between visits.
yup I have an old family friend from Benghazi days who does that.
 

HE117

LE
This is probably an extremely bone question but why don't they just evacuate the area around the vessel, remove and store any infrastructure and stuff that could be blown up by the ship going BOOM!!! like for example power lines, oil pipelines, communications cables and so on, and task either the RAF or the Navy to smite it with great vengeance and furious anger? At least that way the inevitable said BOOM!!! would come at a time and place of someones choosing rather than the ghost of the ship going all chopsy and deciding to do it itself.

And once it's gone BOOM!!! it isn't going to go BOOM!!! again, and all the infrastructure and stuff that had already been removed and stored could be replaced without having the threat of it going BOOM!!! all unplanned like what happened to the Port of Beirut?
If only...!

The main flaw in your suggestion is that the ministrations of the light and dark blue in the way you suggest would not result in a guaranteed clearance, which for the costs involved, would have to be achieved. Indeed history would suggest that the effect of a kinetic treatment of this type would be to make the situation worse by only destroying part of the target, spreading the rest around in an even more problematic state, and given the rate of blinds and misfires from the steely eyed brigade, likely add these to the problem..!

To clear the wreck and surrounding area would require a 100% sweep and excavation to identify all the remaining munitions and a disposal plan to destroy or render safe and remove what was found at a risk level as low as reasonably possible. This would probably require coffering and draining the site to allow open air excavation. I am not an expert in this subject, however it is my opinion that it is not something that could be done underwater by clearance divers. This would be neither quick (Several months, if not a year..) nor cheap..

.. just a matter of finding the budget! (... and think Crossrail type money here!)
 
This is probably an extremely bone question but why don't they just evacuate the area around the vessel, remove and store any infrastructure and stuff that could be blown up by the ship going BOOM!!! like for example power lines, oil pipelines, communications cables and so on, and task either the RAF or the Navy to smite it with great vengeance and furious anger? At least that way the inevitable said BOOM!!! would come at a time and place of someones choosing rather than the ghost of the ship going all chopsy and deciding to do it itself.

And once it's gone BOOM!!! it isn't going to go BOOM!!! again, and all the infrastructure and stuff that had already been removed and stored could be replaced without having the threat of it going BOOM!!! all unplanned like what happened to the Port of Beirut?
well one of the major issues until the 90’s was a huge BP oil refinery next door... Isle of Grain.
always a bit of a ‘concerning’ moment as you passed the wreck in a BFO oil tanker.
 
Hmm yes, tricky problem...

So what we need is a war where journalists can pretend to be in great danger, but where no nasty guns or bombs are flying around.

Maybe you could all report on paintball competitions instead?
Yes good idea, a bit late for my mates though.
All decent blokes who I'm proud to call friends. They wouldn't take undue risks but thought that some risk was worthwhile.

Roddy Scott 20.06.74- 29.10.02 Shot
Terry LLoyd 21.11.52 – 22.03.03 Shot
James Miller 18.12.68 – 2 .05.03 Shot
Simon Cumbers 1968-6.6.04 Shot
Paul Douglas 1957 – 29.5.06 IED
James Brolan 7.4.64 – 29.5.06 IED
Mick Dean 1952-14.08.13 Shot
 

Flight

LE
Book Reviewer
Yes good idea, a bit late for my mates though.
All decent blokes who I'm proud to call friends. They wouldn't take undue risks but thought that some risk was worthwhile.

Roddy Scott 20.06.74- 29.10.02 Shot
Terry LLoyd 21.11.52 – 22.03.03 Shot
James Miller 18.12.68 – 2 .05.03 Shot
Simon Cumbers 1968-6.6.04 Shot
Paul Douglas 1957 – 29.5.06 IED
James Brolan 7.4.64 – 29.5.06 IED
Mick Dean 1952-14.08.13 Shot
Glad to be of help.

Whilst pretending to be in great danger for the TV dramas that some call news you could reflect upon the paintballers having no interest in hitting you, and that each time you are what would have happened for real.

Might be educational. Job jobbed.
 
Hmm yes, tricky problem...

So what we need is a war where journalists can pretend to be in great danger, but where no nasty guns or bombs are flying around.

Maybe you could all report on paintball competitions instead?
How else would we the great unwashed even know what is really Going on in the world?

Rely on a orange muppet Lying to the world.

Give your head a wobble and think about what these people do.
 
Glad to be of help.

Whilst pretending to be in great danger for the TV dramas that some call news you could reflect upon the paintballers having no interest in hitting you, and that each time you are what would have happened for real.

Might be educational. Job jobbed.
Any chance of re-writing that? I'm not quite getting your point.

Are you saying:

1. I don't know what a GSW looks like and that filming paintball might help
2. Are you suggesting that pretending to be in great danger will help to film the paint ball?
3. That non-combatants in warfare will be fine because nobody is trying to shoot you?
4. That I need acting lessons?
5. Something so esoteric that it's passed me by?
 

RBMK

War Hero
Back on topic, I've been sent links to some videos of the Beirut bang by a journalist contact.

The fire before the big bang does not look like fireworks but appears to be small arms ammo going off. This is based on both visual and audible evidence. Looks like a potentiall some cannon shells hence the sparkler effect.

My suspicion is that Hezbollah were storing ammo next to the AN warehouse. This is high on my list of stupid things to do.

Current numbers are >137 killed and >5,000 injured.
 
Back on topic, I've been sent links to some videos of the Beirut bang by a journalist contact.

The fire before the big bang does not look like fireworks but appears to be small arms ammo going off. This is based on both visual and audible evidence. Looks like a potentiall some cannon shells hence the sparkler effect.

My suspicion is that Hezbollah were storing ammo next to the AN warehouse. This is high on my list of stupid things to do.

Current numbers are >137 killed and >5,000 injured.
Considering some of the comments relating to 2006, presumably Mossad would be aware of where Hez munitions are stored: they certainly were back then. If that's the case, then I would imagine someone from CNN will be getting a call from Tel Aviv pretty soon.
 

HE117

LE
What is a Wilson Cloud?
Its not really a "Wilson Cloud"...

What they are referring to is a Wilson Cloud Chamber, which is a device for detecting atomic particles. It is basically a pressure chamber with a moist pad creating a high humidity. How you use it is by sharply reducing the pressure in the chamber. According to Mr Boyle, PV/T is a constant, so this produces a drop in temperature creating a super saturated state in the chamber. If a charged particle enters the chamber it creates a streak of droplets as the particle forms a condensate trail. Eventually the whole chamber clouds over and you have to recycle the pressure pulse..

What you are seeing in the Beirut explosion is a shock wave going through a humid atmosphere and a cloud forming as the water condenses out due to the temperature drop in the vacuum formed behind the pressure wave. It is similar to what happens in a Wilson Cloud Chamber, but there are no charged particles. A better comparison would be the vapour contrails left by high flying aircraft, which is the same effect...

You can get a cloud forming around a nuclear explosion which you could call a "Wilson Cloud" as it is caused by the radiation, but you should not be using the term for a non nuclear event. The cloud here is purely a shock wave pressure and humidity phenomenon.

... bloody amateur scientist journos making up terms!
 
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