Being Charged!

Discussion in 'Professionally Qualified, RAMC and QARANC' started by LeSAUSAGE, Jul 3, 2006.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Soldiers have rights when being charged! Afterall they just may be innocent!

    Are you not entitled to an Accused advisor and the rights of a soldier! Or equivalents in the other services!

    A mate of mine is being charged and doesnt have an accused advisor - I asked them why not and they responded that they werent aware of these Senior NCOs!

    How can this charge procede, legally?

    Another mate was charged and the accused advisor was the prosecuting officer - they were shafted to the extreme!

    Is this right?

    Im not defending them as they are guilty! But arent our superiors guilty of something else!

    Your assistance would be appreciated!
     
  2. Spanish_Dave

    Spanish_Dave LE Good Egg (charities)

    if guilty why bother for gods sakes, what a waste of oxygen
     
  3. When you get charged, better said, warned for orders you should get a copy of the rights of a soldier. As far as I am aware you should see, have time to read and understand them before you get marched in. You havre the right to an accused advisor of your choice (I vaguely remember this) you can find the rights of a saoldier on the Army website as a pdf file!!!
     
  4. Auld-Yin

    Auld-Yin LE Reviewer Book Reviewer Reviews Editor

    You must remember that when you (or your'mate') are marched in your case will be heard by a commisioned officer of many years experience and standing who has been fully trained in the rights of soldiers who have been placed on report.

    So when you hear him saying "March in the guilty barsterd Sarn't Major" you know that you are in good hands. :wink:
     
  5. Thats a very comforting thought Auld Yin
     
  6. You are absolutely correct. The rights of a soldier arrested or charged may be read here:

    http://www.army.mod.uk/linked_files/ag/servingsoldier/termsofserv/discmillaw/files/pdf/5%20-%20Rights%20of%20a%20Soldier.pdf

    Regards and best wishes
     
  7. What course of action can u take if these rights are being ignored! Its ok for old sweats who know the score! But some of my mates are so new and shiney! Let alone look for the right help they dont even know what to ask! I try and give them pointers but theyre to scared to buck the system! Theyre on orders for some pretty lame things! At my old unit they wouldve been given Extras! Some people up on charges are oxygen thieves fair enough but what about the innocent ones getting shafted by people in the system who dont know what theyre doing?
     
  8. Which Unit ?
     
  9. I was warned for orders for being one day AWOL once by a Sgt Major who I thought hated my guts, we'd had run ins. He asked me who I wanted as my accused advisor. I said no one becasue I was in the wrong and this charge was 'straight down the line' as he put it. Marched in, accepted award, £25 charge (in '94, not much really). My point is that if you are guilty, play the game you might be dealt with more favourably, even by the hardest b*stards, than one who might snivel along hoping to get away with somehting they clearly are guilty of. Though your friends charge might be more serious than mine so don't take my advice as good advice, use common sense.
     
  10. Oh I really do not think it would be sensible to require a disclosure of the unit involved.

    If there has been procedural impropriety which has materially affected the ability of an accused to present his case before a unit commanding officer then an inference could be drawn as to whether a finding of guilty was properly arrived at since it may be inferred that the Commanding Officer will have arrived at a decision as to guilt in the absence of all of the material facts which might otherwise have been made available for him had such procedures been properly adhered to before he heard the case before him.

    procedural impropriety, if proved is a denial of the rule of law which carries within it the right to a fair hearing by a fair and impartial tribunal. If procedural impropriety is proved to exist, than that ground alone may well result in a charge being quashed on appeal.

    Paragraph 30 onwards of the guide to which you have been referred deals clearly with the procedure to be followed in respect of an appeal against a summary finding of guilty.

    Regards and best wishes
     
  11. Thanks for that! Its what I've been telling my mates, basically for ages! But they dont say anything to the superiors involved, even though I've banged on that this is not procedure!

    I'm not saying they should not be charged! Infact they should be punished! By the rules though - theyre there for a reason!

    Yes, be honest, when you're in the poo! People will have more respect for u if u put your hands up and admitt to your stuff ups! I'm sure we all make them!

    I've taken a look at the link - informative! Just wish that the info was more readily available! If ur entitled to something why would the chain of command possibly deny u this right!?

    I'm not going to disclose the unit involved! As I may find it hard to come upon material evidence to back what I have said. After all how much of what your mates say is accurate, its hard to tell!

    Lets not get bogged down with units etc!

    Thanks for the info!
     
  12. Good God, LeSAUSAGE, are you physically incapable of ending a sentence without an exclamation mark? It's exhausting trying to read your posts.

    You'd be better off posting this in the RHQ section but, loosely, all of the above is correct. Once charged, soldiers are entitled to an Accused's Advisor. Strictly, they may refuse this assistance (as doomandgloom claims to have done) but when I was an Adjt I made every effort to persuade charged soldiers to take an Advisor, if only to read out the character assessment and plea of mitigation. In fact, it was considered an essential part of an SNCO's professional development to attend CO's or OC's Prayers as an Advisor.

    However, given that soldiers in a regiment will have been officially "told" of their rights at Phase 1 and Phase 2 trg, will have been given a copy of "The Rights of a Soldier" when they were charged (in which the right to an Accused's Advisor is laid out in black and white) and will have been asked, as a part of the Summary Dealing "script", to confirm that they have elected to not have an Accused's Advisor. Rolling over for the sake of giving your boss and easy life is not the sign of a soldier who understands the expression "Moral Courage".

    IF
     
  13. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    I think it was posted here as this board covers the ALS. Not so you'd notice though.
     
  14. Soz! Thought I would ask my fellow AMS comrades! After all we're in the same boat!
     
  15. Auld-Yin

    Auld-Yin LE Reviewer Book Reviewer Reviews Editor

    IF

    Going back to my time in front of the table I was not asked if I wanted an Advisor - in the office were the CO, RSM me, the escort and my Platoon Commander who, Gawd Bless 'Im, lied through his teeth about my good service and what a nice chap I was.

    Left said office seconds later minus my first stripe.

    Point is, my 'Soldier's Friend' was my Platoon Commander, not a SNCO, but guy set over me and the remainder of my platoon (regardless of how that worked in particalities with the Pl Sgt). He was not chosen by me, I was not asked, and if I had I doubt very much if I would have gone for anything different.