BCCS Course or Junior Brecon?

T

the_mentalist

Guest
#1
The Corps has recognised that we are spending more and more time on ops than ever before, and lets face the facts, the places we go to, although great for sun tans are pretty hostile places.

The BCCS course has been designed for other arms, to brush up their soldiering skills and teach low level infantry tactics and more advanced skills such as vehicle anti-ambush drills.
Most RS are already tactics qualified having completed either Junior or Senior Brecon, so this course would be ideal for an MTI, or indeed refresher training for RS.

But my question is, If we have identified a need for such a course, then why not send our guys to do Junior Brecon, they will come back with a much greater tactical awareness, the will be fully up to speed with current doctrine and would be a greater asset to which ever unit they serve at.

The downsides to this argument..... Brecon is a longer, harder and more demanding course, which equals the guy being detached from his unit for longer, shortage of spaces on courses for non infantry soldiers, the requirement for pre-course training etc. But surely the benefits out way the pit falls?
 
#2
I think you may be misunderstanding the BCCS cse slightly. The BCCS cse at Brecon gives one an instructor qualification. Said instructor then returns to unit and delivers the mandatory annual BCCS trg to his Sqn in exactly the same way as an CBRN instr delivers the CBRN MATT.
 
T

the_mentalist

Guest
#3
Hodgoblin, I understand that, however, the spec qual awarded is "Attended a Basic Military Course" not an instructor qual.

Yes these are the guys who are going to train troops in their unit, but prior to attending the course they must have done SAA, but if a JNCO was to do Brecon he would have a definite instructor qual, as part of Juniors they would do SAA, and would be a much more rounded soldier on return to their unit.
 
#4
Agreed. Wasn't aware of the pre-requisite for the BCCS cse. Some Corps will find it quite hard to find enough instr for this additional trg burden. Also amazed that they don't get an instr qual for the cse either - not much of an incentive to attend then...
 
T

the_mentalist

Guest
#5
If I was sending troops away to do a course which enables them to teach BCCS, I would seriously consider Junior Brecon as the first choice! Plus for the badge collectors out there, Brecon entitle you to wear crossed bayonets, as far as I am aware there is no such badge for BCCS.
 
#6
Many years ago,once our unit JNCO cadre was completed,we were sent to Brecon(then PRBS) to do the JNCO course there.Both qualifications were need for a first stripe.
 
#8
the_mentalist said:
Alas, those days are long gone matey :wink:
Mentalist, you seem to have a great knowledge of all things infantry, are you allowed woolly gloves (black), waterproof trousers and mapcases on those courses? and what about maths, is there a lot of counting on the course?????

:boogie:
 
T

the_mentalist

Guest
#9
Methilman, you are allowed a wooley hat under your helmet, but as for map cases, you get a new one every day from the ORP boxes.

What,s your opinion of the BCCS/Junior Brecon discussion? Do have experience of either course! :twisted:
 
#10
the_mentalist said:
Methilman, you are allowed a wooley hat under your helmet, but as for map cases, you get a new one every day from the ORP boxes.

What,s your opinion of the BCCS/Junior Brecon discussion? Do have experience of either course! :twisted:
Niether sorry mental, but I did have a full screw work for me once who claimed to have done the Junior Course, pity his experience was wasted lighting puffin billys and searching for the rations the 2I/C had "mistakenly eaten"!! :wink:
 
T

the_mentalist

Guest
#11
Sounds like a good guy, they are hard to find these days.

I used to work for this Sgt, he wore woolly gloves in the field, I also remember a story about tac sign boxes and a smoking window, but thats another story :D
 
#12
the_mentalist said:
Sounds like a good guy, they are hard to find these days.

I used to work for this Sgt, he wore woolly gloves in the field, I also remember a story about tac sign boxes and a smoking window, but thats another story :D
Oh how he must miss the waft of Embassy Regal in the night, I did hear however, he lost the mapcase, probably stolen by the tac sign snoozer !!
 
#13
re the course in question is the all arms basic close combat skills instructer, you do recieve a spec qual and you are an instructer in said discipline.

one of the pre course requirements was to be a AASAA , howevere this has now been dropped

the course is designed for units who are approaching ops to send nco.s of any rank WO2 was on last course to become current and competent on cuurent infantry tactics.

you then deliver in house training to your unit to supplement optag and then maintain skills on return from tour proir to future deployments

the course is a bit of a beasting lol lots of platoon and section attacks
and remember junior brecon is only as current as when you did it for instance if you did brecon in 2000 i would suggest youd now be out of date

will let you know how much of a beasting it is as i am on the course starting 9th sept cant wait lol NOT
 
#14
Whats the score with JMC's these days?

They are a mandatory training course for JNCOs, so surely they should cater for the ops that are undertaken these days. It seems too good an opportunity to miss when training time is so tight.

When I was in they were done at any unit that could be bothered to organise one and there appeared to be no common syllabus.

The best of them were very good indeed. I dragged my sorry arse round 10 AB WKSP's version in 1990, and while it was a culture shock to say the least, the instructors were in the main (Less one ******** from the RAOC)very good indeed (and all tradesmen not RS types apart from a certain excellent SSGT who became Corps RSM)

We went back to basics and I learned more basic soldiering skills in 3 weeks there than I did in 14 weeks basic and a 6 weeks SMC put together.

If I was dusted off and sent to Iraq or Afghanistan (god help the Army if that is the case) this is exactly the type of training I would want before the more special to op courses that are run.

Saying all that I notice the Corps has just won 2 MC's, so it seems the training on offer is producing top notch soldiers!
 
#15
BlotBangRub said:
Whats the score with JMC's these days?

They are a mandatory training course for JNCOs, so surely they should cater for the ops that are undertaken these days. It seems too good an opportunity to miss when training time is so tight.

When I was in they were done at any unit that could be bothered to organise one and there appeared to be no common syllabus.

The best of them were very good indeed. I dragged my sorry arse round 10 AB WKSP's version in 1990, and while it was a culture shock to say the least, the instructors were in the main (Less one ******** from the RAOC)very good indeed (and all tradesmen not RS types apart from a certain excellent SSGT who became Corps RSM)

Saying all that I notice the Corps has just won 2 MC's, so it seems the training on offer is producing top notch soldiers!


Wouldn't say it was the military training the corps gets, as these guys were more than likely Recy Mechs (I apologise if that's not the case, I only caught the tail end of the story on BFBS today) who were doing thier normal excellent work.I have found it varies greatly between units, with people like,surprise,surprise, Airborne forces putting an extremely high level of importance on Inf type training to the other end of the scale,for example, when I served with a certain,now disbanded, Middle Wallop aircraft wksp, they didn't even know to set up a stag post on exersice!

100% agreed about the ex-10 AB RS Staffie.He was CSM there during my time with them.I remember that he made all the para trained seniors carry him round a 10K road race in Rwanda on a stretcher in '94 after he broke his foot!
Top bloke, if slightly barking! :lol:
 
T

the_mentalist

Guest
#16
To answer some of your questions, JMC is now JCLM and all sylabus was standardised by the REME Arms School a couple of years ago, all units should be delivering the same package through distributed training, the TO's and EO's are not set set by the unit but through REME TDT. Yes I agree that certain units will have more emphasis on PT etc but this is not a TO and therefore the students can not be failed for it.

As for the BCCS course, the sylabus is predominantly CMSR (judging distance, target indication etc with an emphasis towards current ops tactics). OPTAG training will then bring deploying troops up to speed! My point is that for the instructor, Junior brecon will provide more tools in the tool box than BCCS.

On the Spec Qual thing, my mate who is also brecon trained attended the first BCCS course and was not awarded an instructor qual but his course certifcate says "Passed Basic Tactics Course". And yes it is a beasting so is it really worth the effort?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#17
do the corps troops do the same 2 weeks as the old ta/udr jnr brecon or is it the 12 weeks of reg infantry, 6 weeks saa and 6 weeks scbc?
Just seems to be a bit ott to do 12 weeks when that is almost a tour!
 
#19
Guys.

The BCCS or Basic Tactics is for non infantry to develop basic close combat skills. It is not an infantry course thats why all arms attend it.

Junior Brecon and Basic Tactics are totally different courses for different people. Junior Brecon is a junior command course for infantry rifle platoon section commanders and is designed for that job.

Basic tactics is for non infantry to develop your close combat skills to stay alive and be aware whilst on opertions. Also to allow AA units to maintain your level of dismounted close combat skills.

The basic tactics course is a good course, the course is not there to make you an infantryman, its there to up date you with current dismounted and some mounted close combat skills, so that you can develop your skills and that of your soldiers in your coy / sqn / trp.

My advice to you is get on it, and train your blokes / girls
 
T

the_mentalist

Guest
#20
Have you done BCCS Blacky?

Do you agree that a soldier having done brecon would be more clued up and more of an asset to his unit than a soldier having attended a bais tactics course? Because this is my point, and if this is the case then why not put some of our young thrusters through SCBC.
 
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