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BBC Radio 4: "The Briefing Room - Why Are The British Armed Forces Short Of Personnel?"

I thought decline of fitness was normally blamed on the stopping of compulsory PE at state schools (unless one is a left winger, than it is blamed on thatcher milk snatcher...[emoji849]).

I think Andy Kirkpatrick's point of view is pretty close to the answer.
In trying to remove the unpleasant risks and situations of childhood for the next generation, perhaps the struggle and challenge that a child needs to overcome in order to grow has been reduced or neutered.

I've posted this elsewhere, the podcast is excellent
Andy Kirkpatrick | Risky Play

Although I spend a great deal of time in hostile environments, my laboratory of risk has always been playgrounds. They say you can judge a society by its prisons - I would add it’s playgrounds as well, as the people you find there will be your society. What I’ve noticed in our playgrounds is that the children who spin faster, that swing and climb higher, seem more physically and emotionally healthy than those who are told not to go too high, or too fast, or always in sight of anxious parents.

Our risk aversion is at the heart of many of our problems of dependance, self determination, mental illness, our blame culture. If we are unable to be afraid, and face that fear, or to have rites of passage, then children can never grow, and we brick ourselves in with fear. What this kind of play teaches children is one of the most important rules of life, the ability to hang on tight and be brave.

I was lucky in that I was perhaps the last generation of British children to play in parks laid in concrete - the weed of black rubber that spread across the parks of my youth - the first sign of the safety culture to come, risk and adventure slowly designed out of children’s lives. The total cost of rubber matting since the 1970s is in the range of four hundred million pounds, and accounts for 40% of the cost new playgrounds. Just think of all the amazingly dangerous playgrounds we could have built for that.

To take this one step further, perhaps one unexpected side effect of Health and safety legislation and culture is that sometimes the unlucky, maladept and necessary ablative lessons survive. Instead of survival of the fittest, we have an evolution based on safety of the unfittest.
 
Serious question, are the Booties struggling to recruit to the extent the Army is? I worked with them many moons ago and (god rip my typing thum away) was very impressed with their cohesion and esprit de corps.
 
I thought decline of fitness was normally blamed on the stopping of compulsory PE at state schools (unless one is a left winger, than it is blamed on thatcher milk snatcher...[emoji849]).

I think Andy Kirkpatrick's point of view is pretty close to the answer.
In trying to remove the unpleasant risks and situations of childhood for the next generation, perhaps the struggle and challenge that a child needs to overcome in order to grow has been reduced or neutered.

I've posted this elsewhere, the podcast is excellent
Andy Kirkpatrick | Risky Play



To take this one step further, perhaps one unexpected side effect of Health and safety legislation and culture is that sometimes the unlucky, maladept and necessary ablative lessons survive. Instead of survival of the fittest, we have an evolution based on safety of the unfittest.

Rising levels of childhood obesity and type 2 Diabetes throughout suggest current approaches of school PE (very punitive in my experience) do not work

What level of death and disability amongst children would satisfy Mr Kirkpatrick? Falling off of a climbing frame onto rubbing matting will still be an unpleasant sensation, but less likely to result in a life changing injury.

Incidentally - the sporty can get shielded from having to knuckle down and work at school, or following the rules, on account of being able to kick a ball.
 
Rising levels of childhood obesity and type 2 Diabetes throughout suggest current approaches of school PE (very punitive in my experience) do not work

What level of death and disability amongst children would satisfy Mr Kirkpatrick? Falling off of a climbing frame onto rubbing matting will still be an unpleasant sensation, but less likely to result in a life changing injury.

Incidentally - the sporty can get shielded from having to knuckle down and work at school, or following the rules, on account of being able to kick a ball.

You miss the ironic point - perhaps the life changing injury is necessary to cull the dead weight in the herd.

E2A: also is a way to select for luck, if they make it through childhood intact!
 
So the child who falls onto a concrete surface due to a random accident is dead weight? Perhaps the soldier killed or injured in an IED attack is just unlucky too!

Survival of the fittest does not mean the largest, strongest, or fastest. It means the most able to adapt to circumstances.
 
So the child who falls onto a concrete surface due to a random accident is dead weight? Perhaps the soldier killed or injured in an IED attack is just unlucky too!

Survival of the fittest does not mean the largest, strongest, or fastest. It means the most able to adapt to circumstances.
Welcome to the current cognitive dissonance in the save the world movement.

Population limitation is the current policy de jour, and is hitting mainstream media through the likes of Chris Packham, David Attenborough, Kingsmen: the secret service and Avengers: Infinity war.

Yet at the same time as a society, the drive is towards being safer, limiting deaths/injuries and removing people from the workforce/workplace. (Even amazon delivery drivers, whilst having disrupted the high street, out of town retail and siloed shopping, are a few years away from being replaced by a drone).

Too many people, not enough working, reduced mortality rate and increased longevity.

One man out there has the answer...
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Is/was there any research into the number of childhood accidents and fatalities in "traditional" playgrounds and parks?

Anecdotal, but our local park (Pelhams) never had deaths, and the Jungle Gym up the road never had any.
I firmly believe that kids need these "risky" areas to play in - the "near death" (from a kids perspective) thrill of the Witches Hat, the rollercoaster ride of the, well, rocking plan with handles - no idea what is called!, the thrill of clinging onto the unrestricted roundabout for dear life, often lying on ones back, head over the edge.

All on a concrete floor, not this namby-pamby rubberised black stuff.

The only accident witnessed in Pelhams was my younger brother, aged 5 or 6, trying to get onto the roundabout spinning at high speed. He slipped, smashed his head on the edge, and was "rushed" to hospital after someone walked 15mins or so home to fetch an uncle, and remarked "it looked like someone had shaken a bottle of ketchup inside the car". He still - proudly - wears the scar on his forehead.

Oh, and dare I admit we were kicked out the house at early doors, allowed to roam on our own, played in the park unsupervised, but had to be back home by 5pm OR ELSE. We got pretty adept at guessing what time it was as we didnt have watches.
 
Bring back individual Service recruiting offices, theres plenty of shop space on the high street, amoungst the charity shops... Staff them with nice smart recruiting Sgts and rows of ribbons.... Admit Capita was a mistake and be willing to step back to a system that worked.
I have to say, that was our experience in the Stirling ( now closed) branch when our lad joined up 11 years back.
The staff were excellent, kept in touch, and at no time was our son in the dark about his start date for Pirbright. Everything went 100% to plan. They had a rather anti-deluvian wall card progress system in place in the Boss's office, but it sure worked...old school or what. They were also a bloody good laugh to visit, great senses of humour but at the same time left our son with a clear picture of what lay ahead. When there, he never reported any nasty surprises despite a very "rigorous" team of trainers. In turn, in both my wife's opinion and mine when we went down for his passing out, we found them tough, respectful to us, and fair to their charges. We came away with a very positive view at the time. On the other hand, he and thousands like him, have had a few "experiences" with stuff that really ought not to be allowed to happen...largely based around living quarter facility failures and disconnected management but he is the first to shrug it and just say "it is what it is". He is coming out next year to join the Police, and as he puts it..."I'll be leaving one bunch idiots for....another" so again he is under no illusions. He is not referring to any of his mates by the way.
Ok, maybe the Stirling branch was unusual. I don't know. Our son has rubbed shoulders with plenty young guys new in and now it appears to be pot luck...with some of them pretty pissed off before they even leave home.
 
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It is interesting to watch this thread - but what can be done (realistically) to improve recruitment and retention, especially in the Army?

Dont make potential recruits wait 6 months for an interview, only to tell them two days before that they thought you'd been handed off to another unit...
 
It is interesting to watch this thread - but what can be done (realistically) to improve recruitment and retention, especially in the Army?
Here's an off the wall approach. Teach squaddies civilian skills such as plumbing, electrician, IT skills etc. even if this has no relevance to their army role. This would a) give them something useful and interesting to do instead of drinking through boredom, b) give them a better chance of integrating into civilian life after service, c) improve the supply of the missing tradesmen this country is suffering from. You might even run an integrated release to allow them to supplement their pay/pay back their training costs while still serving.

Edited to add: - You could extend this principle so that the whole army became a sort of super AR, a weeks soldiering, then the rest of the month pursuing your civilian profession, vastly reducing the overall personnel cost outside wartime.
 
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All they need to do to answer the question is read the hundreds of "This is why I signed off" posts that are added to the comments on most Fill Your Boots posts on Facebook.
 
Edited to add: - You could extend this principle so that the whole army became a sort of super AR, a weeks soldiering, then the rest of the month pursuing your civilian profession, vastly reducing the overall personnel cost outside wartime.

The only problem is that the TAs are entirely **** at soldiering.
 
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