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BBC Radio 4: "The Briefing Room - Why Are The British Armed Forces Short Of Personnel?"

Retention? It's not just that pay has been frozen and then raises capped, we've also seen the virtual destruction of being able to claim anything as well. Of course being the Army this was carried out in the usual blustering haphazard and seemingly underhand way which we've become accustomed to.
Day to day it just seems like everything we do is harder than it has to be and for the older soldier certainly harder than things used to be, our processes linked to some pretty I'll thought and barely functioning IT make for many a frustrating day.
Restructuring, it seems we're in constant change, we haven't even fully implemented the last one when the next one is announced and off we go again. Every change seems to see us less capable, less able and more hamstrung, every change stinks of reinforcing defeat.
Glasgow APC, the place where dreams die, where the faceless and heartless suck the morale from an entire organisation, burn it with fire........
It's got sod all to do with APC Glasgow. APC just implement what the MoD tell them to.
 
Criminals are rewarded by the criminal justice system and frequently get better accommodation than junior officers. Minted baby boomers aren't interested in helping society and instead rent out their property for prices far above a normal mortgage. Being British is now meaningless due to mass immigration and anyone being given a passport. There's also the dubious record of the recent war in Iraq to consider and the fact that 'duty' and 'honour' no longer exist for the leaders of society. Patriotism is also no longer taught in schools and children have no clue about past glories, I had to tell my gf about Dunkirk and she went to a grammar school ffs!

Look at a British Pathe newsreel from the 50s and see the difference to today, there's very little pride or sense of community in most places. Ergo there's nothing left to defend.

The Yanks still manage to have espirit de corps, mind you they've got lots of flags to wave and lots of jingo.
Criminals get better accommodation than young officers? Apart from why young officers should be singled out over other officers, what about Jnr & Snr ranks? Having seen prisoner accommodation in more than one Nick (and no I wasn't an inmate) I can assure you that you're talking b0ll0cks here.

As for the rest of your post there's so much more b0ll0cks I'll just leave it there.
 
From the perspective of a lot of millennials.
Yet to meet one that thinks that, I have however met many people that believe we were wrong to deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan. I've never heard any of them believe we invaded either country.
 
Criminals get better accommodation than young officers? Apart from why young officers should be singled out over other officers, what about Jnr & Snr ranks? Having seen prisoner accommodation in more than one Nick (and no I wasn't an inmate) I can assure you that you're talking b0ll0cks here.

As for the rest of your post there's so much more b0ll0cks I'll just leave it there.


Agree.


Prison visits as HM Inspector and as a JP.

Not nice. Not at all.


My accom in basic, late 80s, was Spartan but I didn’t have to shit in the corner of the room and more to the point I wasn’t locked in.
 
Yet to meet one that thinks that, I have however met many people that believe we were wrong to deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan. I've never heard any of them believe we invaded either country.
then you have led a sheltered life. Try mixing with the student populace for awhile (i did a stem training course as the tutor for teenagers and that was even worse).
 
Without flogging a dead horse I think the main issue is a generational disconnect.
1. Fitness. It has been recognised that as a whole the younger generation isn't as fit (mentally or physically) or as robust as ones before it. I know every generation thinks this, however the Army has formally acknowledged it by shifting the fitness test baselines to quite frankly laughable scores. Fitness requirements to pass out of Ph2 have been removed and the focus is on the trade theory, totally forgetting that the point is to carry out your trade in the field in austere conditions. We have made it nigh on impossible to bin an unsuitable individual from training, leaving them the field army's problem. This is unfair both on the individual and the army, having been a Training Officer and an Ops Officer we simply didn't have time to address the failings.

The culmination of this is that when they arrive in a unit and start suffering on proper phys they don't like it.

2. Cohesion. It has been touched on before, but there is little to no cohesion. Soldiers (and Officers) remain too attached to home, they fail to bond with their Pl/Coys as a support network and return home every weekend. To them a posting down south just means a longer drive on a Friday. Instead of actually getting into the local town they'd rather drive for 7 hours. This has been a perennial issue for UK units, but with the drawdown of overseas postings its only going to get worse.
Z Type accom means that soldiers go and shut themselves in a (very nice) room with a playstation and suffer in silence. In the build up to HERRICK 12 one of my mates told me that he had 'a lot of scared soldiers' in Z Type who just fretted in their rooms alone or on the phone to girlfriends rather than a senior Tom or screw taking them to one side and keeping an eye on them.

3. Recruiting campaigns. Totally aimed at the wrong people and appears to be focussed on virtue signalling rather than attracting quality recruits. Why the Army has hamstrung itself over feeling it needs to appeal to a very small percentage of the population rather than its main recruiting demographic is beyond me.
All it has done is drive the fit and motivated into the waiting arms of the Royal Marines. Christ even the RAF adverts are better, and all the other services are very well done.

4. Lack of trust. Gen. Carter stated that he felt he needed to convince the 'gatekeepers' (parents) that sending their children to us was a good thing and they'd be looked after. However this has alienated all the serving personnel by treating us like children. Alcohol risk assessments and policies applying to grown men and women are ridiculous.

5. Lack of focus/perspective. I am part of a dying cohort, having joined the Reserves Pre-2000 and the Regular Army pre-HERRICK. I've seen the Army shift from a peacetime force to a warfighting one and back again. There is nothing to focus the mind now, there is no perspective, very few of my peer group have experienced combat, most having earned their medals sat on BSN, yet speak as if they're the authority on deployments. The smallest things that would've been forgotten about in the late naughties, early teens snowball into big issues. There is very little to keep guys interested - multiple UK based exercises and associated poor training value just doesn't cut it.
Afghan saw virtually every cap-badge perform their role properly and in a fighting environment, RE laid their first bridge under fire since Korea, Recy Mechs recovering vehicles, EW, RMP, RA, all doing their jobs in contact - even the gunner I had for an ANCOP road move was RAPTC!

Apologies if it degenerated into a ramble, I'm feeling particularly aggrieved, bitter and passed-over today!
 
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It is interesting to watch this thread - but what can be done (realistically) to improve recruitment and retention, especially in the Army?
 
Yet to meet one that thinks that, I have however met many people that believe we were wrong to deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan. I've never heard any of them believe we invaded either country.

Genuine question, what do they think we did? Thousands of troops and vehicles pouring over a border without permission of the host government is pretty much the definition of invasion!
I suppose you could argue that Afghan was more an intervention in a civil war?

Anyhoo, my tuppence worth on why the AF struggle to recruit. Social media has a role in painting the military as victims or just an awful place to be. Recently a group has popped up on FB called 'Leave No Man Behind' - i am stunned by the sheer number of people posting on there with mental health issues. If this is spreading into the civvie world, its no wonder they believe that all soldiers are ticking time bombs.
Also, on almost every military themed group, such as FYB etc, people are constantly dripping about how bad it is and they are signing off - for example on a post about the new fitness tests, a reply said "Thank Fcuk i am out so i dont have to deal with this bullshit" and that was one of the milder comments. Anyone interested joining will form a picture from such comments and decide that the Army etc is not the place for them. Dont know what to do about that though.
 
Without flogging a dead horse I think the main issue is a generational disconnect.
1. Fitness. It has been recognised that as a whole the younger generation isn't as fit (mentally or physically) or as robust as ones before it. I know every generation thinks this, however the Army has formally acknowledged it by shifting the fitness test baselines to quite frankly laughable scores. Fitness requirements to pass out of Ph2 have been removed and the focus is on the trade theory, totally forgetting that the point is to carry out your trade in the field in austere conditions. We have made it nigh on impossible to bin an unsuitable individual from training, leaving them the field army's problem. This is unfair both on the individual and the army, having been a Training Officer and an Ops Officer we simply didn't have time to address the failings.

The culmination of this is that when they arrive in a unit and start suffering on proper phys they don't like it.

2. Cohesion. It has been touched on before, but there is little to no cohesion. Soldiers (and Officers) remain too attached to home, they fail to bond with their Pl/Coys as a support network and return home every weekend. To them a posting down south just means a longer drive on a Friday. Instead of actually getting into the local town they'd rather drive for 7 hours. This has been a perennial issue for UK units, but with the drawdown of overseas postings its only going to get worse.
Z Type accom means that soldiers go and shut themselves in a (very nice) room with a playstation and suffer in silence. In the build up to HERRICK 12 one of my mates told me that he had 'a lot of scared soldiers' in Z Type who just fretted in their rooms alone or on the phone to girlfriends rather than a senior Tom or screw taking them to one side and keeping an eye on them.

3. Recruiting campaigns. Totally aimed at the wrong people and appears to be focussed on virtue signalling rather than attracting quality recruits. Why the Army has hamstrung itself over feeling it needs to appeal to a very small percentage of the population rather than its main recruiting demographic is beyond me.
All it has done is drive the fit and motivated into the waiting arms of the Royal Marines. Christ even the RAF adverts are better, and all the other services are very well done.

4. Bullshit. Gen. Carter stated that he felt he needed to convince the 'gatekeepers' (parents) that sending their children to us was a good thing and they'd be looked after. However this has alienated all the serving personnel by treating us like children. Alcohol risk assessments and policies applying to grown men and women are ridiculous.

5. Lack of focus/perspective. I am part of a dying cohort, having joined the Reserves Pre-2000 and the Regular Army pre-HERRICK. I've seen the Army shift from a peacetime force to a warfighting one and back again. There is nothing to focus the mind now, there is no perspective, very few of my peer group have experienced combat, most having earned their medals sat on BSN, yet speak as if they're the authority on deployments. The smallest things that would've been forgotten about in the late naughties, early teens snowball into big issues. There is very little to keep guys interested - multiple UK based exercises and associated poor training value just doesn't cut it.
Afghan saw virtually every cap-badge perform their role properly and in a fighting environment, RE laid their first bridge under fire since Korea, Recy Mechs recovering vehicles, EW, RMP - even the gunner I had for an ANCOP road move was RAPTC!

Apologies if it degenerated into a ramble, I'm feeling particularly aggrieved, bitter and passed-over today!
Only my opinion but,

1. Fitness during basic may very well be important, but it's probably more important to achive basic fitness and improve on that in unit lines. Fitness at Section, Plt, Coy, Bn level helps with cohesion, your next point.

2. Even in the 70's and 80's most singlies took every advantage to get home at weekends, it's nothing new. Tidworth & Colchester were empty almost with tumble weeds blowing down the streets. The alternative to this is either ordering soldiers to stay in Barracks (not a retention positive) or possibly arranging mil trg once or twice a month at weekends, not a retention positive either but I've been in a unit where this happened on a regular basis and completely destroyed any remaining unit morale very quickly as it came whilst we were constantly doing overtime to catch up with work.

3. Agree.

4. Don't neccessarily agree. I remember well in the 80's when BAOR (that's BFG to you youngsters) supposedly put a stop to alcohol being awarded as competition prizes, closed many Sqn bars, heaped mighty punishments on offenders and tried (and failed) to eradicate the drinking culture that existed at the time. Bullshit as a whole goes with being in the army, getting on and off the bus, sweeping litter, polishing toe caps is character building isn't it:)

5. Any armed forces kept permanently on operations will almost certainly experience loss of focus too. Basic drills get forgotten, accidents increase, equipment failures go through the roof etc, etc. Calming down from Ops will always bring about frustration with the preparation for Ops rather than real time Ops, unless you're suggesting we start our own foreign conflicts? It doesn't matter how good trg is it can never replace the real thing.

Not a dig, just an opinion.
 
The fitness rot started in 1988.

In 1984 the 10 week Common Military Syllabus included multiple PT sessions each week, building up to the 8 mile CFT in the last week, and the BFT - the 1.5mile squad and individual runs, and the associated gym-based fitness tests (pullups, pushups, heaves, inclined situps). Plus the 'extra-curricular' PT that Tp/Plt felt necessary, such as doubling everywhere, beastings, "wall (if you were at 1 TR REGT RE I need say no more).

Unit PT (in the experience of myself and others) was Tue and Thurs am, 0800-1030, allowing for a min 45min session, shower, NAAFI break; Wed sport afternoon (generally organised, so it was sports not "recce"), and often a Friday afternoon fun run - plain run, log run, etc. And PT included Battle PT in boots, lightweights, cbt jacket, and often a log.

In 1988 the Army decided that fitness was a personal soldiers' responsibility. Squadron PT started at 07.30, with everyone back on parade at 0900; clearly, once parade over, and allowing time to shower, this actually left little time for a meaningful PT session. Wed sports afternoons evaporated, and Friday became a "normal" working afternoon.

This was, and still is, a complete abdication of responsibility on the part of VSOs.

Maybe by trying to appeal to "snowflakes" - or hell, trying to make the Army appear a safe environment to people who have no intention of joining, who are unsuitable for arduous service, or not even the target demographic - we are alienating our real demographic.
 
The fitness rot started in 1988.

In 1984 the 10 week Common Military Syllabus included multiple PT sessions each week, building up to the 8 mile CFT in the last week, and the BFT - the 1.5mile squad and individual runs, and the associated gym-based fitness tests (pullups, pushups, heaves, inclined situps). Plus the 'extra-curricular' PT that Tp/Plt felt necessary, such as doubling everywhere, beastings, "wall (if you were at 1 TR REGT RE I need say no more).

Unit PT (in the experience of myself and others) was Tue and Thurs am, 0800-1030, allowing for a min 45min session, shower, NAAFI break; Wed sport afternoon (generally organised, so it was sports not "recce"), and often a Friday afternoon fun run - plain run, log run, etc. And PT included Battle PT in boots, lightweights, cbt jacket, and often a log.

In 1988 the Army decided that fitness was a personal soldiers' responsibility. Squadron PT started at 07.30, with everyone back on parade at 0900; clearly, once parade over, and allowing time to shower, this actually left little time for a meaningful PT session. Wed sports afternoons evaporated, and Friday became a "normal" working afternoon.

This was, and still is, a complete abdication of responsibility on the part of VSOs.

Maybe by trying to appeal to "snowflakes" - or hell, trying to make the Army appear a safe environment to people who have no intention of joining, who are unsuitable for arduous service, or not even the target demographic - we are alienating our real demographic.
Again it's down to opinion and personal experience.

After passing out of trade trg in 1976 I didn't do any organised phys, except Regt & LAD football, until I arrived at 8 Fd Wksp in 1980 to weekly runs, occasional organised sports aft, monthly mil trg at weekends and regular BFT & CFT so I very quickly realised what I'd been missing :eek:

4 yrs later and now in Munster we did LAD runs every Monday morning. My next unit ASMT (now DST) Wksp again only football and BFT, no unit runs. At 1 RTR I recall 1 BFT and up until 2012 nothing, it was all down to the individual.
 

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