Discussion in 'Infantry' started by msr, May 7, 2005.

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  1. msr

    msr LE

    Just completed RTMC at Chilwell and on the last day, went to collect my rifle for bundling and was handed a bayonet to go with it.

    Racking my brains, I realised that I have never actually been taught how to use one. I realise that the principle is fairly straight forward - find centre of mass and apply bayonet - but what is the correct way to do this?

  2. Pointy end first. :wink:
  3. Auld-Yin

    Auld-Yin LE Reviewer Book Reviewer Reviews Editor

    If they are that close it is time to go home.
  4. The correct way is probably pretty irrelevant as it will come flying off the end anyway!
  5. Bayonet??
  6. Seriously? Keep it off the end of the rifle if you haven't practised with it. Urban combat makes it less useful than if you keep it in your hand. Vehicle operations makes it very dangerous when unsheathed. The biggest hinderance with a mounted bayonet is you lose muzzle awareness. I.e the end of your weapon is now 20-25 cm further away from you; so you'll find you're constantly running into things that you didn't before. Buildings, walls, mates...

    Don't slash for effect, repeatedly stabbing to the torso is what works. DO NOT SPAR with the bayonet. If they're that close and firearm is non-op, get dog mean with the knife and end the fight; then seek cover and apply remedial action to your firearm. Keep in mind that a knife strike is "soft kill", it will take up to several minutes for them to die. That means they're still a threat to you and your welfare.

    Knife fights are vicious affairs at extremely close range and are over in a matter of seconds. Feet, knees, hands, elbows, and helmet are additional weapons used in the melee. Keep your awareness, keep your balance, use anything you can, and finish the fight quickly.

    This is why you keep a reactionary gap between you and the general populace: knives and other hand-wielded objects. To demonstrate reactionary gap effects, I used to take a rolled-up magazine and show the conventional troops the "super-secret-ninja-technique" taught only to tibetan Monks and Green Berets: I walk up and quickly stab them straight into the gut holding the magazine like a screwdriver. Then I'd back up a little, and do it again, back up and do it again, etc. Finally I'm at 6-7 meters range when they FINALLY have enough reaction time to bring the weapon to bear and shoot me.

    The lesson they (hopefully) learn is to NOT let people close the gap with you UNLESS you have a plan to counter a surprise attack with a knife. Even with the weapon pointed straight at me, they still needed 2-3 meters to react. That's why personal defense measures are REALLY handy: for those times when someone is inside your reactionary gap and bringing the weapon to bear isn't fast enough. You can used unarmed (AKA Hand-to-Gland) techniques to create a big enough gap to bring a gun into the knife fight...

    Two rules regarding knife fights:

    1. You're going to get cut.
    2. Make the SOB pay for it.

    Practice doesn't make perfect; PERFECT practice makes perfect.
  7. MSR - You're confused with what to do with a bayonet?

    Imagine how and RAF paper shuffler feels when presented with one to take on deployment. Some RAF are confused enough with a rifle*.

    * Female Flt Lt, 185 rounds @ 25m, 4 hits on fig 11!!
  8. msr

    msr LE

    No, not confused - I fully understand the principle, but was looking for procedural details:

    Do I stick it in and twist?
    Carry on sticking it in until the en is no longer feeling the effects?

  9. Auld-Yin

    Auld-Yin LE Reviewer Book Reviewer Reviews Editor

    The principle is - make sure you have:

    a. enough ammo to win the fire fight (often not ur responsibility)
    b. some back up (often not ur responsibility)
    c. hope it never gets to this stage.
    d, the obvious one - get stuck in.

    So what you really need is(are)
    good luck
    good drills
    good comrades

    did I mention good luck? Cos that is what I send you - All the best
  10. Stick in, twist and withdraw. Doubt you'll ever have to do it though.
  11. Well that is how you do it, but if ever the occasion that it gets stuck, Pull the trigger.
  12. The drill is thrust, twist, withdraw, check sword / bayonet seated correctly - ie has not come loose.

    Chatting to a Guardsman a while ago in Warminster; tells the tale of a particulary nasty Serb (?) sniper, dressed in civvies, shoot and scoot murderer. He shot and legged it into a house, was followed by the lads who found him using a child as a shield . They could not shoot him, so gave him the Good News from Sheffield.

    Probably a bluff, but sounded convincing.

    In the Falklands the Argies winter clothing rendered bayonets ineffective, so the poor buggers where stabbed in the face.
  13. I used this quote in an essay on the Falklands.

    'The instant the grenade exploded the two jumped in the trench and started to bayonet the three surviving enemy. Private Gray killed an enemy soldier by sticking his bayonet through his eye socket'

    Tim Ripley, Bayonet Battle, London, Sidgwick and Jackson, 1998, p238

  14. Unknown_Quantity

    Unknown_Quantity War Hero Moderator

    He should have seen that coming. Oh my coat, thank you.
  15. oh dear!

    if you see that book in the library though I recomend it. I didnt get a chance to read all of it but what I read was good.