Battle of Danny Boy Cover Up - Panorama

#1
Did anyone watch the programme tonight, about the possible murder of several prisoners. Whilst, (in my opinion) the case needs to be proven, it became apparent that there was obstruction to the SIB investigation from the CoC. This, not from that odious scum sucker Shiner, but from individuals in the SIB. If the programme tells the truth then the cover up was much worse than that of the murder of Mr Mousa

Also covered, the Mousa murder and the supposed widespread use of hooding - again, the main evidence for the latter not from Shiner but the head of 'army prosecution' in Iraq?
 
#2
An interesting program. I am always sceptical about the BBC's famous impartiality? whenit comes to the subject of the British forces. it was nice to finally put a face to the muck-raking, ambulance chasing cnut Shiner! What was the title he had on the program? Humanitarian Lawyer? I know anything can be spun however if those sources and quotes were kosher, then there should be some trouble heading the MODs way. Somehow, just like criminal investigations into MPs, I'm sure it can be made to all go away!
 
#3
Did anyone watch the programme tonight, about the possible murder of several prisoners. Whilst, (in my opinion) the case needs to be proven, it became apparent that there was obstruction to the SIB investigation from the CoC. This, not from that odious scum sucker Shiner, but from individuals in the SIB. If the programme tells the truth then the cover up was much worse than that of the murder of Mr Mousa
Danny boy: Ambush of UK Call Signs, bayonet charge against overwhelming enemy forces resulting in a comprehensive victory for British Arms. Personally I don't give a fcuk if a few insurgents were "unlawfully killed" in the process, even though I don't believe they were based purely on the word of terrorists, ambulance chasers and the utter wanksocks in the SIB. If you want to stay alive then don't shoot at men with a mandate and weapons. If you choose to do so then don't expect the bleeding hearts of this world to save you.

Remind me Whet, you spanner, how is the trial of the RMP murderers going for the BRITFOR families?
 
#4
Danny boy: Ambush of UK Call Signs, bayonet charge against overwhelming enemy forces resulting in a comprehensive victory for British Arms. Personally I don't give a fcuk if a few insurgents were "unlawfully killed" in the process, even though I don't believe they were based purely on the word of terrorists, ambulance chasers and the utter wanksocks in the SIB. If you want to stay alive then don't shoot at men with a mandate and weapons. If you choose to do so then don't expect the bleeding hearts of this world to save you.

Remind me Whet, you spanner, how is the trial of the RMP murderers going for the BRITFOR families?
Totally agree with you there, watched about 10 minutes before I started feeling nauseous about "British" lawers trying to take British troops to court over events that they have no comprehension of, just because they think they can get a quick buck out of it.

Complaining about "mutilation and stab & slash wounds" etc., well sorry but thats what happens if you walk into a Rarden round, or an angry man with bayonet fixed.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
Deliberatly didn't watch it.
When its repeated I deliberatly won't watch it again
Not only didn't watch it but ended up listening to Radio 5's love in with Labour. I do so hope that paying the licence fee is made a voluntary act, unenforceable in Law. The BBC seems to have abandoned all pretence at impartiality - bashing the Army is more of the same.
 
#7
Danny boy: Ambush of UK Call Signs, bayonet charge against overwhelming enemy forces resulting in a comprehensive victory for British Arms. Personally I don't give a fcuk if a few insurgents were "unlawfully killed" in the process, even though I don't believe they were based purely on the word of terrorists, ambulance chasers and the utter wanksocks in the SIB. If you want to stay alive then don't shoot at men with a mandate and weapons. If you choose to do so then don't expect the bleeding hearts of this world to save you.

Remind me Whet, you spanner, how is the trial of the RMP murderers going for the BRITFOR families?
Totally agree with you there, watched about 10 minutes before I started feeling nauseous about "British" lawers trying to take British troops to court over events that they have no comprehension of, just because they think they can get a quick buck out of it.

Complaining about "mutilation and stab & slash wounds" etc., well sorry but thats what happens if you walk into a Rarden round, or an angry man with bayonet fixed.
Wot they said.
 
#8
That "humanitarian lawyer" (ambulance chaser) absolutely crucified the RMP's calling them incompetant, untrustworthy and even corrupt.
Of course we all know that he does not intend to make a fair sum by sueing the MOD.
 
A

armadillo

Guest
#9
what about the poor RMP watching 5 of his mates get shot then getting beat to death, that shiner is a complete bastard, a financial vulture, and the poor liasion officer hats of to him for self discipline for not smashing that incredulous journo face in. The BBC is anti forces, run by GROLIEs

My blood pressure has come down, finally.

Why do people not in the military always think war is like football with halftime and gentleman handshakes. I dont see why iraqis have the right to sue, and pursue soldiers through the courts. How many koreans did that, how many Argentines did that? malayans, etc.
 
#10
Shiner hope you get cancer and die a painful death, not a quick one, those RMPs didnt get a quick death. You dishonourable bastard.

Agreed, watched my mum go from cancer and wasn't pleasant, but some people are more deserving than others, him being first in line.
 
A

armadillo

Guest
#11
sorry to hear about your mum, if that was a bit close to the bone I apologise, it was the worst thing I could ever think off,

A
 
#12
what about the poor RMP watching 5 of his mates get shot then getting beat to death, that shiner is a complete bastard, a financial vulture, and the poor liasion officer hats of to him for self discipline for not smashing that incredulous journo face in. The BBC is anti forces, run by GROLIEs

My blood pressure has come down, finally.

Why do people not in the military always think war is like football with halftime and gentleman handshakes. I dont see why iraqis have the right to sue, and pursue soldiers through the courts. How many koreans did that, how many Argentines did that? malayans, etc.

Shiner hope you get cancer and die a painful death, not a quick one, those RMPs didnt get a quick death. You dishonourable bastard.
Thats precisly what was going through my head as he made those disparaging remarks, if he is successful he will succeed in wrangling millions out of the MOD stressing the Defense Budget further claim a large portion of it himself an buy a large mansion and say that justice is done.
But never appreciate that only in Britain would he ever be able bring charges against his own country and shut his ears to the fact that the families of six men of the same organisation he dubbed incompetant and useless are still seeking justice but all they find is wilderness!
 
#13
Can we please also remember that Shiner went to KENYA to try and drum up a case of mass rape of KENYANS by UK BG's going through the ranges there. Despite preparing the statements for the "victims" in the comfort of his home, and then finding people willing to sign them, the whole "case" was fucked right off based on serious unsafe methods used to obtain base "evidence".

Bottom line, it never happened.

Then on to IRAQ where he sought out "victims" for pre-prepared cases that were invented to generate revenue for him and his ilk.

If by humanitarian you mean obsessed by cash, and the pleasures it can buy you, then yes Shiner is indeed "humanitarian" but he is no public servant or champion for the victim.

He see's the military as a paycheck, and the methods he chooses to employ discredit anything he touches. There are plenty of them out there, they have never belonged to anything, done anything, they are the kind of person who quickly bores you at a party, and they know that no matter how hard they try, their lifes work will amount to nothing. They are barely even recognisable as a man, regardless of their gender, mainly as their actions have been to sap money from other peoples misery and disadvantage.

Thats democracy for you, and none of us really want to lose that, so he and his sub humans will continue on. I doubt very much that our dislike is going to keep him up at night.

Its a big jump from gobbing off on TV to proving a case in a court, which I am not entirely certain he has actually ever done with his faking of statements and stirring up of headline subjects.

Worth bearing in mind that journo's, lawyers and politicians will always be at odds with soldiers, as they pursue money in every respect and soldiers remind them, by their actions in adversity, that there are other men out there who serve a greater goal. It reminds them of their dirty grubby worthless existance, and it shames them.

No matter how much they tell themselves otherwise, everything they have is empty of value, which drives them to try and discredit and remove the very people who make them uncomfortable.
 
#14
It was agreed in 1973 that the practice of "hooding" people prior to interrogation was unlawful. Mind you if the true practice of "hooding" had been applied then we would not have this bleating hearted attitude to terrorists today.
The British govt of the day in 1973 were taken to the european court over the issue, Iraq is not in europe.
I ended that progremme with a feeling of disgust towards the Army legal system, the SIB, and the Bliar Govt. Nothing changed there then.
 
#15
I stand by for incoming but I'm afraid I can't go with the consensus so far, but I have differing views on the 2 incidents covered last night.

The Mousa inquiry testaments seem pretty clear that people lied and obfuscated throughout the trials. The soldier's own camera footage was also pretty damning. I also have little doubt that there was a 'fingers in ears', I can't hear you response by the chain of command to the legal advice it was getting. I think any 'heat of the moment' justifications are pretty lame after 36 hours of detention.

The Danny Boy incident is far less clear cut and I've rather more doubt over the veracity of the claims. That said, if UK personnel are saying 12 came into the compound alive then there is a case to answer.

In this case, I also don't completely buy into the BBC bias meme. If the claims are true and we have participated in torture and extra-judicial execution, then there is clearly a public interest angle. We've all been there and understand (and have sometimes shared) the stresses involved, but to maintain our credibility we have to maintain the rule of law. Quite a bit of airtime was given to the MoD to answer the allegations although I couldn't comment on how that was edited. Nice to see Hoon given a pavement interview, too.

I completely agree that most of the personalities involved come out of it badly, including Shiner. Unfortunately, that doesn't make him wrong - it seems the High Court agrees. Most egregious, though, was Lord Goldsmith's commentary. How anyone who (as most evidence suggests) was leant on to perform a spectacular U-turn on the legality of the war could comment on the RMP's independence from the chain of command was sickeningly ironic. If that twat had had a bit more backbone, there was a chance that the lads now under investigation wouldn't have even been there.

Edited for mong early morning recollection - hat tip to Idrach.
 
#16
Fiiiiiiixxxxxxxxx Bayonneettttttttttts!!!!

At this point the discerning insurgent should flea. If you on the OPFOR's side and you hang around after the nasty British have fixed their bayonets... well.

Big boys' game, big boys' rules. Don't whinge because you get a 8in blade stuffed in to your rib cage. Especially if you are inclined to plant bombs or shoot up market places generally, as you are cowards.

Re lawyers, journos and politicians. Not all, but I suppose a vast majority are as Papa Lazarou says. Empty, worthless and hold their manhoods cheap that they didn't have the balls to 'get some in'.
 
#17
Worth bearing in mind that journo's, lawyers and politicians will always be at odds with soldiers, as they pursue money in every respect and soldiers remind them, by their actions in adversity, that there are other men out there who serve a greater goal. It reminds them of their dirty grubby worthless existance, and it shames them.

No matter how much they tell themselves otherwise, everything they have is empty of value, which drives them to try and discredit and remove the very people who make them uncomfortable.
Well said Papa, I just thought I would reiterate the above two paragraphs for all the Journalists and Lawyers reading this thread this morning looking for any post programme (mis) 'informed' comments.


They are the kind of people who will be spending the morning of Sunday 14th Nov in bed nursing hangovers from their ill gotten gains. :-x
 
#18
I stand by for incoming but I'm afraid I can't go with the consensus so far, but I have differing views on the 2 incidents covered last night.

The Mousa inquiry testaments seem pretty clear that people lied and obfuscated throughout the trials. The soldier's own camera footage was also pretty damning. I also have little doubt that there was a 'fingers in ears', I can't hear you response by the chain of command to the legal advice it was getting. I think any 'heat of the moment' justifications are pretty lame after 36 hours of detention.

The Danny Boy incident is far less clear cut and I've rather more doubt over the veracity of the claims. That said, if UK personnel are saying 12 came into the compound alive then there is a case to answer.

In this case, I also don't completely buy into the BBC bias meme. If the claims are true and we have participated in torture and extra-judicial execution, then there is clearly a public interest angle. We've all been there and understand (and have sometimes shared) the stresses involved, but to maintain our credibility we have to maintain the rule of law. Quite a bit of airtime was given to the MoD to answer the allegations although I couldn't comment on how that was edited. Nice to see Hoon given a pavement interview, too.

I completely agree that most of the personalities involved come out of it badly, including Shiner. Unfortunately, that doesn't make him wrong - it seems the High Court agrees. Most egregious, though, was Lord Ashcroft's commentary. How anyone who (as most evidence suggests) was leant on to perform a spectacular U-turn on the legality of the war could comment on the RMP's independence from the chain of command was sickeningly ironic. If that twat had had a bit more backbone, there was a chance that the lads now under investigation wouldn't have even been there.
The claims aren't true, simple as.
 
#19
The claims aren't true, simple as.

Really? Because UK forces personnel testimonies to the Mousa inquiry would suggest otherwise.

Call me a cynic, but if someone gives differing accounts to 2 bodies and only one of those bodies offers amnesty from prosecution, I know which one I think people will tell the truth to.
 
#20
The Mousa inquiry testaments seem pretty clear that people lied and obfuscated throughout the trials.
On the other hand - 3 years after the events and without the advantage of contemporaneous notes, "I don't remember" isn't exactly a damning indictment. I doubt this was the only stress activity they had on that tour.

There is a reason police and other investigators have notebooks ...

Edited to add - got to the bit about the changes in testimony now ...

Most egregious, though, was Lord Ashcroft's commentary. How anyone who (as most evidence suggests) was leant on to perform a spectacular U-turn on the legality of the war could comment on the RMP's independence from the chain of command was sickeningly ironic. If that twat had had a bit more backbone, there was a chance that the lads now under investigation wouldn't have even been there.
Do you mean Lord Ashcroft (Tory funder, Caribbean banker, and sort-of-but-not-quite tax exile) or Lord Goldsmith (New Labour, ex-Attorney General) - I haven't got that far on iPlayer, yet, I can only cope with it in short bursts.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
E Military History and Militaria 13
E Officers 13
W Current Affairs, News and Analysis 4

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top