Bastard needs a talking to...

#1
We all have mates who have died or been hurt in NI, so I think this is very relevant here especially.

So the IRA have stated, without any fear of taking the statement wrong, that they will not disarm. Essentially this means that they undoubtedly retain the capacity to wage the terrorist war, the same, or even greater than before.

Troops and security enplacements in the province have been massively dismantled. Watch towers that looked over wide regions of the border have been dismantled, leaving the terrorists virtually free rein to roam the border regions.

Meanwhile the collection of intelligence and weapons and expertise continues unabated by the terrorists around the world, but now seems to be concentrated in South America.

So the IRA is still as potent a terrorist organisation as it ever was.

What, short of actually declaring the Province as now part of a united Ireland, does Blair have left to give the IRA terrorists as appeasement and sops to disarm?

We have just fought a war in a far away foreign country, that was no threat to the UK. Blair wanted that war, Blair took us into that war. What about NI?

Using his own standards, and using his own rhetoric, the war on terror, can we now rely on Blair to instigate an invasion of Eire to weed out the IRA and forcibly remove their weapons? Or can we even rely on him to try and force the IRA to the table and begin disarmament?

Not on your nelly, that would be just too imprudent.

The people of NI who have died deserve to be better remembered, as the men of the forces who have died deserve. They should not all be sacrificial to better serve Blairs carreer and future carreer. :mad:
 
#2
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/2943411.stm


A British agent at the centre of alleged security force collusion with loyalist paramilitary killers in Northern Ireland has died.
Brian Nelson, who operated as the intelligence chief of the Ulster Defence Association (UDA), was recruited by military intelligence at the height of the Troubles.
 
#3
I think there are lots of questions to be asked by a lot of people, but NOT from some IRA/Sinn Fein scumbag.

It's funny how Sinn Fein, all members of IRA or with strong links to them, keep asking for public enquiries, but at the same time don't want to talk about their own involvement or talk about atrocities, not just murders, of Loyalists or Security Forces.

It shows the weakness and craven cowardly nature of Blair that he doesn't tell them to feck off, and instead he DOES start public enquiries costing millions and millions to appease this lot. And even further, he starts to apportion blame! At the same time he goves Adams and the rest of the terrorist gang offices in Westminster at OUR expense!  :mad:

Anybody who know this bunch know that giving them everything and anything they want isn't going to solve anything, it is only going to make them stronger in their own strongholds and beyond.
 
#4
Perhaps we could recruit the help of Mr Bush, he has the hump with terrorists on a global level.

Perhaps he fancies having a pop at our realtime close to home terrorists that are only 100miles over the water.

Is ther any oil over there in Lurgan or Bessbrook? The place would certainley benefit from a rebiulding package, Ill put it to him when he has levelled Syria and Yemen and Korea and Iran and Jordan and........................ maybe Ill forget it ::)
 
V

vespa

Guest
#5
personally i would just scrap the entire good friday agreement  :mad:and knuckle down to another 25 years of attrition :p until the next generation comes up with a better idea , because its plain to see that the IRA are not going to disarm they had every opportunity to do so  ::) the loyalist as far as i can see did go some way with their own initiative toward peace but i don't see any single IRA initiative also another overlooked fact is that the irish people DON'T want northern ireland with all the attemdent social problems
 
L

LE_OC

Guest
#6
Of course they won't disarm. They have been "working" towards a united sovereign Ireland and now that Ireland is about to become a province of a country called Europe they will need all their arsenal to take on Brussels. The only endearing quality the IRA have is that they are anti-federalist.

I'll take up the call myself if Blair takes us down the same route without a referendum.
 
#7
The whole issue sickens me to the stomach.  Without trying to simplify the whole process that's been going on over the last ten years or so, this is what has taken place:
All terrorist prisoners released on early licence.
Troop levels seriously reduced, with more reductins to come very soon.
The RUC disbanded and 50/50 recruitment enforced.
Numerous border towers and barracks dismantled.
Military patrols practically non-existent province-wide.
and coming very soon....
Ex-prisoners to sit on district policing boards.
On the run terrorists being granted amnesty and allowed to return without fear of ever being charged or arrested.
And in return we get what exactly?
Political parties affiliated to terrorist groups sitting in our own little parliament.
Terrorist groups hanging on to their illegal arsenals
Continued targeting of security forces, on and off duty
"Incidents" occuring on a daily basis that for some reason go practically unreported in the local media or press (read some of the daily NIREP's and compare it to what made the news that day!)
and numerous other bits and bobs I'm far too bloody fed up with to mention.
Catholic or Protestant, it doesn't matter at all.  The vast majority of folks here were sold a dud with the good friday agreement.  Many have cottoned onto this and to be blunt, if it were to be voted on again today, it is highly unlikely it would stand any chance of being accepted.  Every time it looks like it's sell-by date is coming up, the goal posts are changed by the government to suit their agenda.  Simply one case in point out of many is the upcoming elections of local government posts which should have taken place by now.  However, due to a realisation that non-agreement parties were likely to make massive gains at the expense of pro-agreement parties, it was suspended until the end of May.  The reason being that the government could use the extra time to "spin" something out of the IRA that might swing the vote back in favour of those parties that are pro-agreement.  One of the most horrible lies being spun is that to be anti-agreement is to be anti-peace.  I am anti-agreement and I want peace.  Just not at any price.  
 
E

ex-dvr

Guest
#8
I have noticed that most the posts relate to the IRA, are they the only terrorist organisation to announce non-disarmament?

Loyalists groups do not seem to count on this subject, and they definately have(had) weapons and were liable to use them just as much when on my visits to the "province".

Basically force them ALL disarm, before further help is given
 
#9
The whole issue sickens me to the stomach.  Without trying to simplify the whole process that's been going on over the last ten years or so, this is what has taken place:
All terrorist prisoners released on early licence.
Troop levels seriously reduced, with more reductins to come very soon.
The RUC disbanded and 50/50 recruitment enforced.
Numerous border towers and barracks dismantled.
Military patrols practically non-existent province-wide.
and coming very soon....
Ex-prisoners to sit on district policing boards.
On the run terrorists being granted amnesty and allowed to return without fear of ever being charged or arrested.
And in return we get what exactly?
Political parties affiliated to terrorist groups sitting in our own little parliament.
Terrorist groups hanging on to their illegal arsenals
Continued targeting of security forces, on and off duty
"Incidents" occuring on a daily basis that for some reason go practically unreported in the local media or press (read some of the daily NIREP's and compare it to what made the news that day!)
and numerous other bits and bobs I'm far too bloody fed up with to mention.
Catholic or Protestant, it doesn't matter at all.  The vast majority of folks here were sold a dud with the good friday agreement.  Many have cottoned onto this and to be blunt, if it were to be voted on again today, it is highly unlikely it would stand any chance of being accepted.  Every time it looks like it's sell-by date is coming up, the goal posts are changed by the government to suit their agenda.  Simply one case in point out of many is the upcoming elections of local government posts which should have taken place by now.  However, due to a realisation that non-agreement parties were likely to make massive gains at the expense of pro-agreement parties, it was suspended until the end of May.  The reason being that the government could use the extra time to "spin" something out of the IRA that might swing the vote back in favour of those parties that are pro-agreement.  One of the most horrible lies being spun is that to be anti-agreement is to be anti-peace.  I am anti-agreement and I want peace.  Just not at any price.  
very similar to my bit.
 
#10
I have noticed that most the posts relate to the IRA, are they the only terrorist organisation to announce non-disarmament?

Loyalists groups do not seem to count on this subject, and they definately have(had) weapons and were liable to use them just as much when on my visits to the "province".

Basically force them ALL disarm, before further help is given
Loyalist groups don't bomb indisciminately and have no anti-UK stance. They also, in the main, don't target security forces.

The one group in NI that can bring the troubles to an end, either forced or through negotiation, is PIRA. I favour force myself.

If we listened less to the politically correct idiots that run the Government and just got the job done the troubles would be ended very shortly.

Many here know the score. We know who they are, we know where they are.

PIRA has done one thing and one thing only in return for everything Blair has given them, and that is maintain a tacit ceasefire. But they are the same with the same capability.

John Major started the peace process and the IRA broke the ceasefire, why? Because Major demanded they disarm immediately or be thrown out of the process. Blair the craven cowardly bastard caved in and gave them everything, bar nothing, that they wanted, and even gave them more than they wanted.

Blairs message to PIRA? TERRORISM WORKS! Under these circumstances why WOULD they disarm?

Get rid of the PIRA, and the Loyalists just become a criminal gang, which they are essentially anyways. IRA or UDA/UVF, there are no punishment beatings really, jut turf wars for drugs.
 
V

vespa

Guest
#11
besically the terrorist were given evry concession in the books and we got NOTHING in return , zilch , nada zero fuk all !
 
#12
Ex-Dvr,  A terrorist is a terrorist is a murdering scumbag.  It doesn't matter to me, or indeed the vast, vast majority of those in my own regiment as to whether they are green or orange in their "political" persuasion.  Conflict resolution is not an easy process, even less so when you've a gun pointed at you under the negotiation table.  If, and I mean IF the terrorists agree to call an end to their illegal activities (and stick to it - no more targeting, procuring of more illegal weaponry, active recruiting, racketeering, smuggling, drug-dealing, punishment shootings, etc,etc) and get rid of their illegal arsenals then I for one would gladly support any ACTUAL democratic process that included their political representatives.  I most likely wouldn't like it, but I would most probably support it, as opposed to the shambles of an agreement we currently have.  We have a government that is happy to spend millions on a war against terror, and send thousands of British troops to fight a bunch of murdering scumbags on the far side of the world.  Meanwhile, the representatives of those who have murdred over 500 British soldiers on our doorstep are welcomed into the White House, and elected to British government?!  If the IRA/UVF/UDA were muslim extremists would they be dealt with the same way?  There's an irony in there somewhere that I doubt even MDN or ORG could find the humour in.
 
#14
Loyalist terrorists would not exist but for the IRA.  Deal with the big fish first, then King Billy's first fiteen will disappear.
 
#15
TT, Unfortunately the terrorists are unlikely to vanish, even should we have a widely accepted peace in the morning.  On both sides we're dealing with very large, reasonably well-organised groups who have been lording it over their communities as the "big men".  They have access to large stocks of weapons (and we're not talking simply small-arms here - RPG's, SAM's, tonnes of explosives etc!), and more importantly the scumbags on both sides are raking in the funds.  Does anyone honestly believe they're going to simply give up the status, the money, the guns, and the "power" from all of these just because the political party they are allied to has managed to get into local government?  The paramilitary groupings are the big stick their politicians using to cajole continued concessions out of the government.  "You wouldn't want another big bang in the financial district of London now would you Tony?  We need concessions on A, B, C and D to keep these boys on board" or "We want this, that and the other from you or we'll go back to bumping off the locals on the Falls road - and you know how the provies will react to that Mr Blair".
Post 9/11 the public will is there to deal with terrorism so why are this lot suddenly being treated as reconstructed peacemakers?  Can you imagine suggesting to the yanks that they should sit down and negotiate with the taliban and al-quaeda, and include their representatives in a democratic process because they have legitimate political aims?  As I've mentioned before, terrorists, regardless of what side they're from are scum and need to be rooted out.  As for the old cliche about them being one mans freedom fighter - what kind of freedom is fought for by blowing saturday shoppers to bits, murdering taxi drivers for being the "wrong religion", or exiling over 1000 individuals from the country just because they disagree with their own politics?  Blair, you are a weak, weak man.
 
#16
Foggy I can hear the frustration. There are some truly beautiful parts of NI, one side of my family comes from Down.

Blair is worse than weak, he's just a hypocrite. How can you have a war against terror, but reward the terrorists who have done you the most damage for 20 years? Or does T W A T not apply to White Terrorists, and countries with no easily accessible mineral reserves?

As regards formed units like the UVF/UDA/PIRA/CIRA/ etc etc, aren't they all just crime families, based on regional and religious lines?

There are good people on both sides of the divide, but they will never get a chance to enter politics, while the scum have a stranglehold on the way things work, be they Loyalist or republican

Graow a pair Blair, and start saying no. If it all kicks off again, I'm sure your nice new best mate Mr. Bush can let you have a Marine Div or two, and some Apaches. You remember that nice man don't you? he was the simian looking gentleman who came to visit, and declared he had solved the peace process.

Clown

Actually let me throw it open. How would members of this board solve the Northern Ireland issue?

Keep it sensible please , anything else gets deleted (unless it's that funny)
 
#17
i think the law should be actually enforced for once, and for the law to be applicable to everyone, not just people who are not flavour of the month.
 
#18
PTP - frustrated is too mild a term.  As much as I love this place, I am currently making plans with Mrs foggy for emigration within the next few years.  I was never a pessimist, but in the last few years I've watched the way things are going here.  I don't want to be around when it goes completely down the tubes.  The whole Stormont scandal several months ago which resulted in Sinn Fein being kicked out, and direct rule reimposed seems to have been quietly forgotten, and it looks as if yet another fudge is taking place in order to get them back in.  This seems to be the constant.  Regardless of what both sides get up to, it seems that the government is either too weak or just not interested enough to take any real action against them.    
How to deal with it?  Take the gloves off, hit them hard and where it hurts - financially.  The assets recovery agency should be up and running any day now, put it into full effect.  In addition, chase them down, charge them for whatever offence they commit, not simply turn a blind eye just because it suits the politics.  Al Capone was, I believe, eventually put away for tax evasion was he not?  If something like that can work for one gangster, try it on the ones we have here.  Make them realise that yes, peace is achievable, but if they aren't prepared to give, they don't get to take.
Both governments need to take an active role, roll the sleeves up, grab our local politicians by the scruff and tell them to get it sorted out regardless of how long it takes.  No half-baked, "all things to all men" agreements, but something that might actually work in the long-term.
 
#19
From 1921 the policy of HMG is to keep NI at a distance from normal UK politics.  Prior to 1969, NI came under the same minister as the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.  Throughout the troubles every effort at solving the problem has been an attempt to get it off the UK political agenda by devolving power.  Essentially, Blair doesn't want to have anything to do with NI and so long as everything is kept nice and quiet on the news everything will be alright.
The problem with that is the normal people living in the estates have to live under the thumb of paramilitaries who are getting away with whatever they like while the security forces have their hands tied.  
My suggestion to deal with it would be aggressive policing and law and order of the like you would see in any other country in the world and I don't mean taking the terrorists out as that would make the problem ten times worse. I mean imprisonment with proper sentences.
 
#20
I have never understood why NI has always been treated differently to the rest of the nation. I think (IMHO) that there has been far too much trying to deal with the 'sensitivities' of both sides of the political divide. For example, why has The Marching Season been allowed to exist at all? If marches on the mainland are deemed to be provocative or racially unacceptable, they are simply banned - why have the Orange and Republican marches been allowed?

It's too easy to abuse Blair - I don't believe he's been acting out of weakness, he's not that stupid. It cannot be a coincidence that the present head of the NI police is one who stated categorically and immediately that he doesn't view terrorist activity as anything other then mafia activity, and that he would deal with it in exactly the same way as he dealt with the Yardies, the Triads etc etc on this side of the water. Good for him, I hope he gets the support from the Governemnt - AND THE LOCAL COMMUNITIES that he needs.
 

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