Basra secularists would prefer US troops to British

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by AndyPipkin, Oct 16, 2005.

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  1. At the moment an insurgency centred on 20% of the population plus some imports is keeping the US occupied full-time. I refuse to believe anyone in the US would be stupid enough to take on the Shia who comprise 60% of the population.

    Besides, with the number of troops we have in the country we had no choice but to let the locals get on propelling themselves back into the Middle Ages. Anyone who thinks that the Brit forces in theatre would have been able to affect the actions of locals in Basra who most probably outnumber us many times is deluding themselves. As I said on another thread Saddam needed a lot of murdering sadists and associated equipment to keep the Mullahs in their box - did we ever have a chance of stopping them ?
  2. We had to take on Sadr's bunch in 04, if we have to we can do it again.
  3. Yeah sure we can...

    I would just ask... how exactly did we do that again?
  4. Since you have forgotten this link may refresh your memory.
  5. Interesting, the attitude of some people toward Iraq.

    May i remind you both sides lost lives in that episode, and indeed an episode most people including servicemen and civilian alike wish they would never have to go through again.

    Not all Iraqis are terrorists, not all Iraqis are fighting the coalition Forces.

    I for one would hate for this to happen again simply because of the back lash of violence it will cause and the more Insurgent/terrorist recruits it will make.

    Yeah well done, you took them on but.......
  6. "I asked an Iraqi police commander in Basra why, given all this help, not a single member of the Iraqi security forces had come to the aid of the British Army during the recent troubles.

    He smiled apologetically and turned his palms outwards, saying he didn't know the details of the incident.

    "It's not surprising," said the army captain with me. "He knows we'll be gone eventually and we won't be able to help them when that happens."

    Aden all over again. Loyal local troops/Polis left to be butchered by new administration.
  7. The problem is a bit larger than one Baghdad slum taking potshots at foreigners. It centers around an awful lot of religious nutters imposing their vision of society on everyone else. They're in the majority and consequently everyone is either going along or turning up dead. Trying to oppose that movement would annoy an awful lot of people. Have you considered how an attempt by the US (lead by a fairly fundamentalist Christian) to roll back Muslim religious law would appear ? Why not call it a Crusade and be done with it ?

    Besides, they've already won. The constitution allows them to set up a separate country in all but name, they're getting on fine with Iran and they're just waiting for the US to leave before taking the next step. The Kurds will support them as they're just waiting to set up their own homeland. And the Sunnis are starting to realise that they're now a small fish in a big pond. If anyone has won this one it's the Iranians. They've lost a potentially dangerous neighbour, gained some friends and now have the potential to expand their borders up to Saudi Arabia. The Shia parts of Saudi where the oil is.
  8. I hid in my snatch wagon and prayed for the Warriors to turn up
  9. And have a Shia ARAB state right next to their major, arab-majority oil producing region, currently enjoying a spate of seperatist attacks. IMHO Iran is almost as likely to split up as Iraq is.
  10. Not sure I like this macho bullshite. It smacks of 'come on then Sadr, if you think you're hard enough'.
    In late 2003 Sadr was small-time. Other religious leaders such as Sistani had far more crecibility. The more radical Shias looked up to Bakir Al Hakim. He was killed in a bomb attack in Najaf in Aug 03 - Sadr was implicated. Sadr was becoming public enemy no 1. Then he did a clever thing: he started to drum up support amongst the poor, the dispossessed and the disenfranchised. He turned the Sadr movement into a freedom movement for the poor, and took on 'obstacles' to that - mainly us. The 'masses' don't respond to ideas, even religious ones, they respond to promises of economic freedom (for those saying 'bollox' at this point, I give you the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the Freikorps in 1919, Che Guevera in Bolivia). Allying his brand of Islam with sway over the mob gave him a whole new legitimacy, which makes him harder to touch.
    So taking him on again - fine, if we have to. But let's not 'bring it on'. That said, a more robust approach towards crime and disarming illegal VCPs again would send a more unequivocal message.
  11. If we're still referring to T6's comments, then we're essentially talking about the US approach. Macho bullshite is all that they have in their playbook these days. Surely you can see what a stellar effect it has had on the region thus far!
  12. Just noted a really telling comment in that BBC article:
    In other words "we voted but I don't like the result, so can you people with guns come in and change it to one I do like". I can just guess what the response would be if anyone tried that line in this country...
  13. Street parties and happy-happy-joy-joy I suspect :D
  14. Common problem. RUC used to say "OK for you but I have to live here when you lot are gone" Cyprus police pre-Enosis knew they were ruled by their own civilians. I had a enquiry re theft of revolver on very morning that Enosis came about. Nobody knew who wanted the report. Went to Athallassa police HQ. Guys who had been sergeants were supers, Det Sgts were uniform PCs. Some didn't even have a job. Those IC police stations 'attacked' and weapons 'stolen' had all been promoted. Seems FO procedure is to do whatever is necessary to get them stop attacking us. Nominate some political party as Govt and get offside. What happens to "winning" party? Overpowered but do we care? Aden FLOSY/FANY sort of thing.