Barrister shot by police - lawful killing or not?

Discussion in 'Police, PMCs, Security' started by bigeye, Sep 20, 2010.

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  1. An inquest is to open today into the death of a wealthy central London barrister shot dead by police during an armed siege. Mark Saunders, 32, was killed by at least five bullets fired by marksmen who surrounded his London home. They were called after reports a shotgun had been fired out of a window at the £2.2 million property.

    Mr Saunders was killed in a volley of shots fired by seven officers at the end of a five-hour stand-off at 9.32pm on May 6 2008. The fatal gunfire came after a first shot was fired by police at 5.04pm, and a second shot was fired at 9.09pm as Mr Saunders roamed the property with a shotgun. The SEVEN officers who fired 11 bullets at Mr Saunders all claimed that they acted in self-defence or in the defence of colleagues.

    Saunders was shot by officers from the Met's CO19 unit AND Royal and Diplomatic Protection Squad.

    Slight overkill here maybe?
    (Disgraced) Commander Ali Dizaei, in overall charge, refused to let Saunder's wife speak to him.
    How many marksmen does it take to shoot one bloke armed with a side by side shot gun?
    What the hell were the SRR doing there?
  2. On the above points you've made, it sounds like complete overkill. Then again, he was middle class...

    edit: meaning to say it doesn't surprise me that they went OTT.
  3. Coroner Dr Paul Knapman has granted anonymity to officers giving evidence as:

    "The majority of these officers have expressed fears about possible retribution from violent criminals with whom they have been involved in the past, although no specific threats have been identified."

    The bloke was a divorce lawyer - not an underworld brief.
  4. He was a lawyer, they never shot him enough.
  5. He was ex HAC and a prolific turps-nudger. Now he's just ex.
  6. Here was me thinking that, for lawyers, only a stake through the heart was truly effective!

    "was killed by at least five bullets fired by marksmen" + "The SEVEN officers who fired 11 bullets".

    So, maybe less than half the bullets fired hit the target. Methinks a little more shooting range practice time needs to be scheduled.
  7. He was firing a weapon in public. Got slotted. Job done.

    The real question is why it took 11 rounds of which only five got there target?

    Edited to add someone beat me to it.
  8. Mr_Fingerz

    Mr_Fingerz LE Book Reviewer

  9. Sixty

    Sixty LE Moderator Book Reviewer
    1. ARRSE Cyclists and Triathletes

    To be fair, they are getting better. At least this bloke actually had a weapon. Quite a step up from be-denimed sparky, ambling with intent and being is unlawful possession of a table leg.

  10. Pretty good shooting by plod standards.

    At least no barn doors were harmed.
  11. There was a similar incident in Switzerland a couple of weeks ago. Though the fellow was twice the age and was to be evicted from his property. He refused and eventually the police surrounded the building. He came out guns blazing and shot an officer in the head (in the Kevlar helmet to be precise), officer survived and the guy got away. A manhunt that was to last for 10 days ensued. He was eventually apprehended without another shot being fired.

    My point is that in a country with one of the highest gun ownerships per capita (2-3 Mio firearms on 7.8 Mio population) I found it astounding that when asked whether officers are to take a kill shot when presented with the opportunity, this was denied by the authorities as the law does not foresee that except for self-defence. There were similar cases in Switzerland in the past, yet, they have not adopted a more aggressive stance on threat response, though gun control has become stricter.

    Looking at the UK case I can't help but think that people shit themselves if there is a gun involved and tend to go overboard...

    Pic from the Swiss police attached (not bad, Sig 551 Swat and MP5SD3)...

    Attached Files:

  12. Suicide by Cop.

  13. It sounds like a bit of shooting competition was going on - CO19 verses Royal and Diplomatic Protection Squad whilst
    Showing off to the SRR boys.
  14. As this isn't the NAAFI, and to be fair to the filth, the bloke had previous, and he was reported to be carrying a shotgun in a plastic bag shortly after waving his bag around in a pub, claiming it contained a shotgun.

    Again, out of fairness, CO19 pretty much swept the board at the army-run international snipers competition a couple of years back, failing to win only one category.
  15. Regarding the Swiss. Do not their reservists hold a weapon and several rounds of ammunition at home, in the interests of national defence? If this is still the case, it is amazing that there is so little gun crime there.