barriers to recruiting

#1
over the last 12 months i have had responsibility for recruiting and retention in my local unit and i have constantly ran up against the same problems which create barriers to attracting and keeping our recruits.

the main issue is the length of time it takes to process our potential recruits. we have to book them onto a Look at Life weekend which can be up to 6 weeks then they have to attend a selection weekend again up to 6 weeks after the LaL. they have to go to their GP and get proof they are medically fit to undergo training again potentially a lengthy process.They then have to attend a TA medical again booking them on one when they become available. They could be hanging about for up to 4 months after their initial impulse led them to approaching the TAC. They get attested as the final act of their selection weekend. Then and only then can they begin their military training.

however there are added difficulties when the potential recruit is an ex reg. We cannot begin to process them until their Former service Documents arrive from Glasgow. i have yet to find a satisfactory answer as to why this apparently simple matter takes so long. We often have to wait for months on end for their former service documents to arrive at our unit. 12 months ago i was told there was a backlog. however i would have expected such a backlog to have been dealt with by now. It hasnt. i have been waiting for up to 5 months for the fsd's on up to 8 individuals and cant get any reason as to why it takes so long. i have had 5 individuals lose interest over this same period of time and they have cancelled their applications.

No-one should be expected to wait up to 5 months for their documentation to arrive from glasgow and then face a potential 4 month wait before they can begin training. This situation is quite obviously intolerable and needs to change.

we need to smooth out thewhole process and speed it up drastically. we are losing out on a high number of recruits for the TA and the armed forces generally. we need to be able to book our potential recruits on any LaL/ selection weekends in the "region" that we can get them onto. encourage the staggering of these weekends so there is always one going on somewhere. Open them up to all other units and we then cut to nothing the waiting times. LaL and selection are universal so we dont have to stick to our trades.

we need to be able to fast track ex regs and get them back in kit as soon as possible before they find alternatives for their free time. we dont want to lose their invaluable experience and knowledge simply because of an admin fcuk about. The present system is proving a hindrance when we should be encouraging ex reg's to be staying in kit as part time soldiers. We need to find out where the bottleneck is and get the fcuking thing sorted out. FSD's should be on our desk 2 weeks at the most from when they were requested. any longer is not good enough and we cant expect potential recruits to wait for them to eventually get there.
 
#2
you have hit the nail on the head, i went into the local unit.
filled all the forms in there and then, had my red book etc etc, went back for the following 3-4 weeks and still nothing had come back from glasgow to as getting me back in uniform.
if the army cant be arsed to process people's info etc and get them in asap then why should people bother to keep turning up and not getting anywere.
ive been out 2 1/2 years and not once have i had an issue with pay or anything from civvie employers, the army needs to modernise not just in equipment but also in attichude to people
 
#4
I can sympathise with this having spent a number of years recruiting for my unit in it's previous guises (and technically still do).
I wonder though, why do you have to do a Look at Life, I'm fairly certain we don't. Is this something that your CoC has put in place - could you not flex the system?
Can you not egin processing ex regs as new recruits? Unless they have just left and have literally stepped in the door from their regular unit(well, within three years - any longer and they have to do the whole recruit training again), what difference does it make. You can still apply for the docs, which will arrive as and when, but the 'recruit' in question is already on the road to being (re)trained. Other than a new number, what do they lose?
 
#5
I joined the TA in 79 along with about 12 others, some left one joined the Paras and one the Welsh Guards. He was in the falklands and on the Galahad when it was bombed. He survived then came out and wanted to rejoin his previous TA unit. He was told he would have to do a selection weekend - to see if he was good enough to fire blanks - no big surprise he went elsewhere - our loss
 
#6
In terms of processing potential applicants without prior military experience, there are ways to streamline the process (mainly by breaking the rules). For instance, I've seen recruits being sent on ADSC before they've done their medicals, to get them through in time. However, most units would probably not find this acceptable. As for the Look at Life course, I didn't think these are neccesary. They are very useful, and a good experience for someone looking to join the army, but if getting one done results in a potential recruit missing selection, then the course is counter-productive. After all, ADSC is a good oppurtunity to provide the potential recruit with a taste of army life, making a L@L course somewhat redundant. None of the units I've been at have had L@L as a prerequisite of going on selection.

Once Glasgow gets involved, getting people in under the wire while you wait for their paperwork to catch up is no longer an option. Glasgow is a monsterous bureaucracy administered like the late Soviet Union, and needs sorting out.
 
#7
Look at Life isn't compulsory - we don't send contacts to it. I totally agree though - I have a similar role in my unit and it feels like I'm banging my head against a brick wall most of the time. Delays with RG8s, ANYTHING that Glasgow is involved with, 207s etc etc, and then finding they have to wait another month to go on ADSC seems ridiculous.

iamalondoncrab said:
For instance, I've seen recruits being sent on ADSC before they've done their medicals, to get them through in time. However, most units would probably not find this acceptable.
How does that happen? We try and send anyone to ADSC before the required boxes are ticked and they get refused...
 
#8
Welcome to the public sector:

No-one cares, no-one is accountable and everyone ends up with a final salary pension.

Why rock the boat?

msr
 
#9
Fire said concerns up the Coc if nothing is done or you dont get a reply you like , then either sidestep the Coc(bad move even if you tell them you're doing it because you feel that strongly) or tell them you dont want to do the recruiting anymore because of the concerns you have.

At our unit the biggest problem we have is logistics of getting the lads kit and them to see the quack, because we're an outstation.
Thats IF we have the drivers there on the night to do it and they have time left(legally) on thier license to do the driving.

I didnt have faith in the new method of getting recruits through, RTC then further weekends for infantry.
We lost a fair few because of being backsquadded for missing a w/end either through illness or work BUT what lads you do get through you know they have a high level of commitment.
 
#10
quix said:
iamalondoncrab said:
For instance, I've seen recruits being sent on ADSC before they've done their medicals, to get them through in time. However, most units would probably not find this acceptable.
How does that happen? We try and send anyone to ADSC before the required boxes are ticked and they get refused...
When they get to ADSC and the DS there ask them "Have you been medicalled?", they are under strict instructions to say "Yes."

Some still say "No", and get sent home as a result :x
 
#11
iamalondoncrab said:
When they get to ADSC and the DS there ask them "Have you been medicalled?", they are under strict instructions to say "Yes."

Some still say "No", and get sent home as a result :x
Looking at your user name I assume you are part of london District and your potential recruits attend their recruit selection.

If you are one of the London units that send potential recruit to the 145Bde recruit selection take note:

It is compulsory that your potential recruits complete a medical before attending selections. Units are to supply signed documents supporting this. If that documentation is not present then the potential recruit WILL be declined a space.

If units decide to falsify this to ensure a potential recruits place, when found out they will be held to account.

Ensuring a potential recruit is medicalled before selection protects the both the PR and the Army.

I am sure that the 145Bde recruit selection team will now be paying particular attention to the medicals of potential recruits coming from London units!
 
#12
fallingplate said:
If units decide to falsify this to ensure a potential recruits place, when found out they will be held to account.
They should be, but they won't.

msr
 
#13
fallingplate said:
iamalondoncrab said:
When they get to ADSC and the DS there ask them "Have you been medicalled?", they are under strict instructions to say "Yes."

Some still say "No", and get sent home as a result :x
Looking at your user name I assume you are part of london District and your potential recruits attend their recruit selection.

If you are one of the London units that send potential recruit to the 145Bde recruit selection take note:

It is compulsory that your potential recruits complete a medical before attending selections. Units are to supply signed documents supporting this. If that documentation is not present then the potential recruit WILL be declined a space.

If units decide to falsify this to ensure a potential recruits place, when found out they will be held to account.

Ensuring a potential recruit is medicalled before selection protects the both the PR and the Army.

I am sure that the 145Bde recruit selection team will now be paying particular attention to the medicals of potential recruits coming from London units!
I'm not involved in recruitment and don't know the proper procedures beyond what I experienced when I went through ADSC. I only heard this from recruits who'd actually come off ADSC saying they hadn't been medicalled, and they're not from my unit.

I don't actually know how the unit got away or thought that it could get away with bending the rules like this. I deny all knowledge! :wink:
 
#15
I just hope that I dont get piss potted about when joining my local regiment.. cos I know that I will lose focas and interest.....

As for training.. dont really wanna be stuck same time next year, not even completed basic training
 
#16
I am a ex TA soldier, who was up to reading this thread thinking of re joining, however if i have to wait around for 4 months just to start my first recruit weekend, i m sorry but i think i might just not bother, so i guess i am proving your point fusilier50, when i first joined up as a 17 year old i was in uniform within 2 weeks, 4 months give me a break.
 
#17
If it takes 4 months to get someone to start then you are doing something very wrong.

We normally have someone attested within 6 weeks of first contact, or at least that's the target I set when I ran the show, its easily do able you just need to think of the following

1. book on medical at earliest opportunity
2. check when next available RSD is and book accordingly
3. maintain very good relations with the ADSC staff, here's a bit of advice, send plenty of helpers with the PRs, the ADSC staff appreciate the help and will help out if you have a late entry. Ive turned up on the night with guys who were not booked in but had their med docs with us and got a place
4. hammer out the paperwork, you can nail it in an single evening if you st down with them and help them.


Don't just leave the PRs to get on with it
 
#18
A few points

1. Is a L@L really necessary?

2. If your unit is using the RG8 (as for the regular Army) then it is going to take longer than booking them in with your units friendly doctor as soon as possible.

3. For any issues with ex-Regs refer the problem to SO2 Soldier Selection Casework at Recruiting Group, there should be no reason for them to be made to hang about for so long

4. Contact you local BRAT they should know the answer if not PM me

But to quote MSR in all his infitate wisdom

msr said:
Welcome to the public sector:

No-one cares, no-one is accountable and everyone ends up with a final salary pension.

Why rock the boat?

msr
Hopefully he's talking about Glasgow
 
#19
fusilier50 said:
over the last 12 months i have had responsibility for recruiting and retention in my local unit and i have constantly ran up against the same problems which create barriers to attracting and keeping our recruits.

the main issue is the length of time it takes to process our potential recruits. we have to book them onto a Look at Life weekend which can be up to 6 weeks then they have to attend a selection weekend again up to 6 weeks after the LaL. they have to go to their GP and get proof they are medically fit to undergo training again potentially a lengthy process.They then have to attend a TA medical again booking them on one when they become available. They could be hanging about for up to 4 months after their initial impulse led them to approaching the TAC. They get attested as the final act of their selection weekend. Then and only then can they begin their military training.

however there are added difficulties when the potential recruit is an ex reg. We cannot begin to process them until their Former service Documents arrive from Glasgow. i have yet to find a satisfactory answer as to why this apparently simple matter takes so long. We often have to wait for months on end for their former service documents to arrive at our unit. 12 months ago i was told there was a backlog. however i would have expected such a backlog to have been dealt with by now. It hasnt. i have been waiting for up to 5 months for the fsd's on up to 8 individuals and cant get any reason as to why it takes so long. i have had 5 individuals lose interest over this same period of time and they have cancelled their applications.

No-one should be expected to wait up to 5 months for their documentation to arrive from glasgow and then face a potential 4 month wait before they can begin training. This situation is quite obviously intolerable and needs to change.

we need to smooth out thewhole process and speed it up drastically. we are losing out on a high number of recruits for the TA and the armed forces generally. we need to be able to book our potential recruits on any LaL/ selection weekends in the "region" that we can get them onto. encourage the staggering of these weekends so there is always one going on somewhere. Open them up to all other units and we then cut to nothing the waiting times. LaL and selection are universal so we dont have to stick to our trades.

we need to be able to fast track ex regs and get them back in kit as soon as possible before they find alternatives for their free time. we dont want to lose their invaluable experience and knowledge simply because of an admin fcuk about. The present system is proving a hindrance when we should be encouraging ex reg's to be staying in kit as part time soldiers. We need to find out where the bottleneck is and get the fcuking thing sorted out. FSD's should be on our desk 2 weeks at the most from when they were requested. any longer is not good enough and we cant expect potential recruits to wait for them to eventually get there.
which area of the country are you recruiting, as I am looking at RRF in the midlands, but if its going to take 4 months to get trianing I might have to rethink.....
 
#20
richy4 said:
which area of the country are you recruiting, as I am looking at RRF in the midlands, but if its going to take 4 months to get trianing I might have to rethink.....
Not yours ;)

msr
 

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