Barren Mess?

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
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They’re currently in Sandhurst and finishing ahead of their male counterparts/ in Sandhurst/ just a load of bollocks like female infanteers?
Several female officers are already serving in RAC units, apparently some are doing very well indeed.

At least three of them are currently sleeping with ORs as well, so that's nice.
 
Is there the odd awkward silence at dinner or do they just keep them tied up in their rooms?
The RLC gap year commission girl I knew, who was screwing one of her Cpl’s, just kept him in her room.

She briefly had a nickname (it didn’t stick) of ‘Stinkhole’ as she claimed that at the tender age of 19 she’d shagged 20+ blokes.
 
The RLC gap year commission girl I knew, who was screwing one of her Cpl’s, just kept him in her room.

She briefly had a nickname (it didn’t stick) of ‘Stinkhole’ as she claimed that at the tender age of 19 she’d shagged 20+ blokes.
Are you sure she was RLC, she sounds a bit frigid for one of ours.
 
Thoughts of an ex-Mess President and current Mess member...

Messes are dead if they don’t hoist in what is happening in Civvy street. And the majority of them are dead, they just don’t realise it.

My current Mess has just relaxed dress standards a bit, as it found the scruffs bar was heaving, and the main bar and dining room unoccupied after 1930. Unfortunately, they thought the sight of Officers’ knees unacceptable, so now the main bar is still unused, as in all this nice weather, every still goes to the scruffs bar, wearing shorts and t-shirt.

The scruffs is full of middle men and women like me who are living like they did 20+ years ago at BRNC/RMAS/Cranwell, and my sense is the junior courses do come in, but they’re not nearly on the lash as much as my peers are.

On the other hand, the gym can be heaving, and I’ve resorted to going at 2200 in order to have a decent go at the kit I need. I also don’t eat in the mess as the food is on a 5 week cycle, and the last thing I need in mid-summer is a full roast gammon dinner.

What does this all mean - if messes want to be a popular place, my gut feeling is that they have to cater to all, not just the ones who want to recreate the BAOR. Much much better salads/protein would probably bring people back into the dining rooms; likewise, offering something better for those who don’t want to drink huge amounts (I.e. decent non-alcoholic drinks, or smoothies, or whatever) would go a long way.

As a pointer, HMS COLLINGWOOD - a basion of the ‘old and bold’ in the RN - turned over the scruffs bar to the junior officers and a young Sodexo chef (I.e. he was 21ish). They turned into much as I have described above, and it is wedged, 5 days a week. The old and bold have been left to rot in the main bar, where they can bitch about declining standards away from anyone else.

It’s also interesting that the “traditional” Cav messes are losing Junior Officers hand over fist. A couple of their future COs is on course with me - one of them calls it the ‘1000 day subbie’ phenomena: Young Officers join for three years, love the “tradition” and then promptly f*ck off back to the real world, where dining with your peers isn’t compulsory. As a pointer, none of the 2nd Lt - Capt who served under him in his Sqn is in the Army anymore (and no, I’ve crossed checked, he isn’t a bullying c*nt). Likewise, I believe in a recent SUC board, the Cav Officers were offered their choice of sub-unit as there wasn’t enough Officers to go around the gaps to be filled...
 
She certainly not alone, quite a few female loggie officers that I know have a "passionate" love life.

Mystery of girl cadet's fall from Sandhurst window | Daily Mail Online

3 years later

Balcony fall lieutenant in new sex scandal
She certainly not alone, quite a few female loggie officers that I know have a "passionate" love life.

Mystery of girl cadet's fall from Sandhurst window | Daily Mail Online

3 years later

Balcony fall lieutenant in new sex scandal
It certainly demonstrates changing times. The Mess and Rank exclusivity that Caecilius describes, although serving a really useful purpose, are simply out of step with the changes in society.

No-one really joins the Army to live in a cloistered 'boy's club' living out a fantasy lifestyle to the exclusion of what is considered normal.

There was a time, which probably came to an end in 1946 where the majority of those who Commissioned were ex Public Schoolboys who considered the Mess as an extension of their boarding house, with similar archaic dress and social rules. In a far more class conscious society the other ranks were the 'staff' and any form of intercourse, social or sexual, between them and the 'leaders' was expressly forbidden.

It is from this enforced separation (Apartheid?) that the mystique of Leadership was developed

As the Army and society changed this position seems more and more bizarre. Royal Princes, were seen shitfaced in public, in jeans, eating fast food and shagging some pretty rough slappers until they grew up and settled down.

Through this, we had sarnies Cowan and other embarrassing individuals. As the Army admitted or attracted less of the stereotypical Officers less were comfortable with the Old School concept.

Face it Most Corps, HQ and other than Combat Arms Messes are made up of a disparate bunch of people most of whom do not fit into the 'traditional' Mess concept simply because their backgrounds do not reflect it.
 
This doesn't make sense as a question. Cavalry junior officers live in.
Whilst I agree with you that enforced attendance can make the mess more fun - it certainly was when I was a 2Lt although I’m not sure that I would have any truck with it now - doesn’t your statement above indicate the issue?

It means you are selecting on social rather than professional criteria. If there was proven operational reasons I could understand this but I’m not convinced there is. Are the products of these messes significantly better? Does precluding married Officers or those who might not favour the formality of the mess produce better leaders? Are the soldiers being best served by the self-selecting cohort that a system like this produces?

If not then it sounds dangerously like certain units are running themselves to provide a boys club atmosphere for their junior Officers and are willing to risk operational effectiveness to maintain a self selecting and inward looking mess.
 
Thoughts of an ex-Mess President and current Mess member...

Messes are dead if they don’t hoist in what is happening in Civvy street. And the majority of them are dead, they just don’t realise it.

My current Mess has just relaxed dress standards a bit, as it found the scruffs bar was heaving, and the main bar and dining room unoccupied after 1930. Unfortunately, they thought the sight of Officers’ knees unacceptable, so now the main bar is still unused, as in all this nice weather, every still goes to the scruffs bar, wearing shorts and t-shirt.
Well, welcome to the dawn of the 21st C, which is when most RAF Messes relaxed dress standards.
 
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