Bambi Bambi/ Charlie in the North

armr617

War Hero
Greetings all,
I now have my .308, a suppressor and a scope (inbound this week)

Now aside from the paper targets at my club I'd like to get some venison, the right way..

Anyone know of any syndicates at not too much coin around the Harrogate/ York/ ripon area?
Cheers
 
Greetings all,
I now have my .308, a suppressor and a scope (inbound this week)

Now aside from the paper targets at my club I'd like to get some venison, the right way..

Anyone know of any syndicates at not too much coin around the Harrogate/ York/ ripon area?
Cheers

You could be in luck, the DDM is in desperate need of new members in the North. If you have at least 5 years residual service left get in touch with your local group.

I take it you have an open ticket?
 

armr617

War Hero
Vinnie, I live 3 miles from ripely castle if I was of the poaching mind..
Felix, unfortunately not, I'm now into my last 2 yrs (jun16)

Tbh I've not heard good things about DDM, when I enquired down in Aldershot they wanted at least 3 nights a week and a couple of weekends a month, before they'd put me on DSC1! (Although someone did mention that may have just been the senior officers protecting their hobby)
I'm all for commitment but that's just daft- especially with a family.

I'm quite happy to the DSC myself, already did my Jagdschein cse in Germany so I'm quite happy.
 
Sounds like someone was being a complete dick, there's no way you'd expect someone to commit to that who was still serving.

Funny enough at the recent AGM the topic came up of the bad (false) image that had grown up around the DDM.
 

armr617

War Hero
Well if they want me with 2 yrs (plus AR) then I'd have a look. My current job is fairly static, mon-fri8-5, the odd weekend here and there.

As I said, I'm happy to do DSC1 myself (I was told the time frame was to get their 'money's worth' from funding DSC)

Oh, and I'm just waiting on my ticket coming back from firearms dept, been agreed by head of dept .308 cleared for deer & AOLQ
 
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ugly

LE
Moderator
DDM is another self licking lollipop. I'd rather go to St Huberts than submit to DSC which is now an open book course!
DSC is easy enough if DDM were worth joining then they would be recognised along with St Huberts. Personally I think they should be binned and the MoD can make a few sheckles leasing the rights!
 
DDM is another self licking lollipop. I'd rather go to St Huberts than submit to DSC which is now an open book course!
DSC is easy enough if DDM were worth joining then they would be recognised along with St Huberts. Personally I think they should be binned and the MoD can make a few sheckles leasing the rights!

But it's not an open book exam!

I think that you might have forgotten that the DDM is actually a Service Branch of the BDS, and not a free standing organisation.

As for leasing, both the FC & NT wish that they never opened their sites up to contract deer management?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Not contract management but to individuals. Trust me in the last two years I have met at least 5 individuals who have taken level 1 written and been allowed the course notes.
Defence estates should lease it out and not have it as a closed shop!
 
But who is going to manage the individuals, once people start paying for stalking rights it's easy for their priorities change from deer management to that of getting value for money or in some cases how much profit they can make.

as for the course notes - that's called cheating. Was it who was sponsoring the course?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
In the same way that private landowners and estates do. In fact the FC leases are hard to get and difficult to comply with! There is no reason that the Defense estates cant make some revenue for the MoD and give jobs to retired crusty WO's at the same time!
 
Even the NT who pay for deer management on their land are generally dissatisfied with the contractors.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
That's because they don't employ deer/estate managers with decent salaries. They end up making a pigs ear of things. We managed estates for a good few years keeping cull targets, larder records and providing a good training course before DSC1 over several estates amounting to about 85000 acres nationally with one full time manager and about a dozen local supervisors who got to finish the cull if the clients ballsed it up. That was without annual leasing and it worked.
It can happen it just needs the right people to set it up and run. Best practice can be insisted upon and managed it just needs the will to do it!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Ok to the OP, I recommend you have a chat with your FEO and find out what the current policy is to granting it. You will need land, this can be leased and you may require training and mentoring! If you find out whats needed then start door knocking on suitable looking farms for permission!
 
In the same way that private landowners and estates do. In fact the FC leases are hard to get and difficult to comply with! There is no reason that the Defense estates cant make some revenue for the MoD and give jobs to retired crusty WO's at the same time!

Unless they employ a gamekeeper the individuals just have stalking rights, they are not conducting deer management. How many individuals do you know that have conducted a full census and published a cull plan for the land that they have stalking permission on?

The question of the MOD land being opened up and the DDM being done away with is being discussed at the moment by DIO and funnily enough the evidence from the FC and NT is being used used to demonstrate why it doesn't work.
 
That's because they don't employ deer/estate managers with decent salaries. They end up making a pigs ear of things. We managed estates for a good few years keeping cull targets, larder records and providing a good training course before DSC1 over several estates amounting to about 85000 acres nationally with one full time manager and about a dozen local supervisors who got to finish the cull if the clients ballsed it up. That was without annual leasing and it worked.
It can happen it just needs the right people to set it up and run. Best practice can be insisted upon and managed it just needs the will to do it!

I couldn't agree more, it's just a shame that their aren't more people with that level of moral courage to follow that example and not just see the ££££££.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Unless they employ a gamekeeper the individuals just have stalking rights, they are not conducting deer management. How many individuals do you know that have conducted a full census and published a cull plan for the land that they have stalking permission on?

The question of the MOD land being opened up and the DDM being done away with is being discussed at the moment by DIO and funnily enough the evidence from the FC and NT is being used used to demonstrate why it doesn't work.
The census and cull plan was done originally by the national manager assisted by the locals and maintained by the locals. Cull plan agreed with each land owner plus trophy fees and carcasses where required. Some landowners had dinky little 80 acre woods dotted about so prime objective was species management to support timber harvesting such as eliminating Roe Bucks during the territorial thrashing crops with antlers time to leaving a good healthy herd of pretty Fallow does for the owner to see whilst savagely managing the prickets and less than stellar bucks.
Larder returns were vital and if a wood was leased to be managed and larder returns were suspected of being faked then they would be black listed and the wood taken back into central management!
Evidence and statistics can be twisted, its a great opportunity for a DDM team to break away and present a case based on experience that different management can work but I suspect they aren't inviting interested parties to comment!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I couldn't agree more, it's just a shame that their aren't more people with that level of moral courage to follow that example and not just see the ££££££.
I considered applying for the job at Woburn, I knew I wouldn't get a look in but that's how it should be done!
 
Post 17 describes a properly regulated organisation rather than the individuals in post 9! :)

A bit like the DDM minus the silly grading system ( you didn't hear that from me).
 
I won’t say that the DDM hasn't had it’s problems. There has been accusations of cronyism, even from some very senior members of the forces and there has been accusations that some members are alleged to making as much as tens of thousands of pounds, to the detriment of others.


Hopefully it’s all a thing of the past
 

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