BAFF and UKNDA

#1
So now we have another pressure group purporting to support members of HM Forces.

UKNDA.

Includes a group of military has-beens who have little credibility as they lacked the moral fibre to speak out when serving, let alone resigning, and who now have a new-found status of Patron, “Vice President” or Board Member - 39 of them for goodness sake.

BAFF.

An organisation whose 10 Point Plan shows it is hell bent on challenging the Chain of Command and comes from the barrack room lawyer/trade union end of the spectrum.

Discuss.
 
#2
The BAFF thing is being discussed on armynet (by thousands of people honest :p ) The people bigging it up are a little disapointed that most soldiers have pinged it as a wannabe union.
 
#3
stacker1 said:
The BAFF thing is being discussed on armynet (by thousands of people honest :p ) The people bigging it up are a little disapointed that most soldiers have pinged it as a wannabe union.
Good for the soldiers.
 
#7
Balleh said:
daz said:
Balleh said:
stacker1 said:
The BAFF thing is being discussed on armynet (by thousands of people honest :p ) The people bigging it up are a little disapointed that most soldiers have pinged it as a wannabe union.
Good for the soldiers.
They can't have read this thread then linky
I am sure they have, and have decided that BAFF is indeed a “wannabe” union.
Most soldiers have pinged you, Balleh, as a dick.
 
#8
cpunk said:
Another afternoon on the cheap scotch Gav?
Not alcohol induced, and in any event Scotch – can’t stand the stuff.

But your comment clearly demonstrates that the first reaction by BAFF supporters is to try to close down the debate by rubbishing dissenters. This suggests they don’t really have a coherent argument.

So, back to the main point:

“So now we have another pressure group purporting to support members of HM Forces.

UKNDA.

Includes a group of military has-beens who have little credibility as they lacked the moral fibre to speak out when serving, let alone resigning, and who now have a new-found status of Patron, “Vice President” or Board Member - 39 of them for goodness sake.

BAFF.

An organisation whose 10 Point Plan shows it is hell bent on challenging the Chain of Command and comes from the barrack room lawyer/trade union end of the spectrum.

Discuss.”
 
#9
ViolentBadger said:
Balleh said:
daz said:
Balleh said:
stacker1 said:
The BAFF thing is being discussed on armynet (by thousands of people honest :p ) The people bigging it up are a little disapointed that most soldiers have pinged it as a wannabe union.
Good for the soldiers.
They can't have read this thread then linky
I am sure they have, and have decided that BAFF is indeed a “wannabe” union.
Most soldiers have pinged you, Balleh, as a dick.
Quite possibly, but they seem to agree with me.
 
F

fozzy

Guest
#11
Balleh said:
So now we have another pressure group purporting to support members of HM Forces.

UKNDA.

Includes a group of military has-beens who have little credibility as they lacked the moral fibre to speak out when serving, let alone resigning, and who now have a new-found status of Patron, “Vice President” or Board Member - 39 of them for goodness sake.

BAFF.

An organisation whose 10 Point Plan shows it is hell bent on challenging the Chain of Command and comes from the barrack room lawyer/trade union end of the spectrum.

Discuss.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
#12
Balleh said:
ViolentBadger said:
Balleh said:
daz said:
Balleh said:
stacker1 said:
The BAFF thing is being discussed on armynet (by thousands of people honest :p ) The people bigging it up are a little disapointed that most soldiers have pinged it as a wannabe union.
Good for the soldiers.
They can't have read this thread then linky
I am sure they have, and have decided that BAFF is indeed a “wannabe” union.
Most soldiers have pinged you, Balleh, as a dick.
Quite possibly, but they seem to agree with me.
Only in your own mind :wink:
 
#13
Like them or not the Uknda will get more air time than Baff will. This is not because Uknda is better than Baff it is purely down to the fact that the Uknda has well known talking heads that people and journo's already know and Baff does not seem, to me , to have that contact with the media.
 
#14
loopallu said:
Like them or not the Uknda will get more air time than Baff will. This is not because Uknda is better than Baff it is purely down to the fact that the Uknda has well known talking heads that people and journo's already know and Baff does not seem, to me , to have that contact with the media.
That could be true right up until the next load of senior officers take retirement and can't get a job. Then they will form another federation/union.
 
#15
Balleh said:
So now we have another pressure group purporting to support members of HM Forces.

UKNDA.

Includes a group of military has-beens who have little credibility as they lacked the moral fibre to speak out when serving, let alone resigning, and who now have a new-found status of Patron, Vice President or Board Member - 39 of them for goodness sake.

BAFF.

An organisation whose 10 Point Plan shows it is hell bent on challenging the Chain of Command and comes from the barrack room lawyer/trade union end of the spectrum.

Discuss.
You are really, really, really boring.

Why have you got such a chip on your shoulder?

Let people make their own minds up about whether they want to join these organisations. The more you bang on about this, the more people will just ignore you.

Get a life,

Tubs
 
#16
Balleh said:
BAFF.

An organisation whose 10 Point Plan shows it is hell bent on challenging the Chain of Command and comes from the barrack room lawyer/trade union end of the spectrum.

Discuss.
Part of your continuing personal vendetta or monomania, then Balleh?

Evidence please for your assertions?

Define Chain of Command please?

Are you talking about the function or the reality?

Any chance of direct responses to these - simple - questions?

Or do we see a repeat of your last attacks - no evidence and no real replies, just continuing assertion of your crusade?

Why bother? What good do you think you are doing?
 
#17
loopallu said:
Like them or not the Uknda will get more air time than Baff will. This is not because Uknda is better than Baff it is purely down to the fact that the Uknda has well known talking heads that people and journo's already know and Baff does not seem, to me , to have that contact with the media.
BAFF spokeswoman on R5Live now.
 
#18
Becoming something of a one trick pony Balleh? - As much as I welcome debate, I'm beginning to wonder why you are hell bent on rehashing a topic so recently discussed?

Would you spell out in clear english your comments in relation to BAFF 10 Point Plan and the Chain of Command?

For somebody who was at pains to inform us that you disagree with the formation of both organisations last week, you're probably doing both organisations a favour in highlighting their existence.

After the launch of the UKNDA this week, we can but wait and see, just how effective they will be. I wish them well in their bid to increase defence spending, in the same way as I wish BAFF good things in the many areas that they have campaigned on behalf of service pers since their formation, largely as a result of discussion on these boards.

Do you think that the formation of BAFF and the UKNDA will change the way in which the CoC functions over the next decade?
 
#19
ABrighter2006 said:
Becoming something of a one trick pony Balleh? - As much as I welcome debate, I'm beginning to wonder why you are hell bent on rehashing a topic so recently discussed?

Would you spell out in clear english your comments in relation to BAFF 10 Point Plan and the Chain of Command?

For somebody who was at pains to inform us that you disagree with the formation of both organisations last week, you're probably doing both organisations a favour in highlighting their existence.

After the launch of the UKNDA this week, we can but wait and see, just how effective they will be. I wish them well in their bid to increase defence spending, in the same way as I wish BAFF good things in the many areas that they have campaigned on behalf of service pers since their formation, largely as a result of discussion on these boards.

Do you think that the formation of BAFF and the UKNDA will change the way in which the CoC functions over the next decade?
No successful organisation budgets for its own closure; its employees earn their livings from it and management also enjoys the status. To stand still is not an option, so it is inevitable that BAFF and UKNDA will seek to extend their remits with the result that they will seriously undermine the Chain of Command by encroaching more and more on its responsibilities.

BAFF and UKNDA will seek to gain credibility by first concentrating on a few uncontroversial matters on which there is general agreement, accommodation and the Military Covenant for example. As their pronouncements won’t have “frightened the horses” and they will also claim credit for influencing the improvements, they will no doubt get that credibility, be it merited or otherwise.

Once a foothold is established they will expand their influence, and like the Trade Unions over many decades they will have two main gambits. They will always seek to be associated with success and take care to give the impression that they have influenced the successful outcomes. On the other hand they will distance themselves from the bad whilst implying the failures would not have occurred if only the Chain of Command had taken their advice in the first place. A bit like “Power without the responsibility – the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages” (Kipling).

As for their relationships with each other and other support organisations, let alone the Chain of Command itself, well there is a nice little foretaste of what’s to come in the topic “Ex-chiefs demand more forces cash” - http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=81672.html page 6 - where there is a spat going on. Cpunk reckons UKNDA is a one shot wonder and Hackle feels compelled to announce that it was BAFF, not the RBL, who first thought of the campaign concerning the Military Covenant. This is reminiscent of the Trade Union turf wars which contributed so much to the decline of British commerce and industry in the 60s, 70s and 80s, and Hackle’s particular comment suggests that BAFF, at least, will not be above attempting to upstage the Chain of Command – “Bruvvers, we thought of it first”

Finally, in the other topic, Blue Sophist and Recce19 rightly make the point that disagreements between BAFF and UKNDA lays them open to Whitehall apparatchiks playing one off against the other. Yet they fail to explain why the same will not apply in the event of disagreements, and there will be some, between either or both of these two organisations and the Chain of Command.
 

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