BAE to close yards. Your call, a Scottish or English one.

#1
MoD locked in BAE talks - Telegraph

Should encourage debate.

BAE is an international company and one might feel that they are looking very closely at the Scottish referendum - especially if Scotland vote to leave and the EU gives them the heave ho.

Will this have any impact on the yard they have said they probably need to close? Will they look to invest in facilities in England? Is worth maintaining yards in Scotland? How big would the Scottish defence budget be?

Questions Questions
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#4
If the jocks wan't independence then why should they get the jobs?

Odo
ACtually I agree with you; unless we can prove better quality, price and delivery time.
 
#8
While the government may feign horror at the idea of a closure, they be also taking careful note.

Value of some godfosaken part of Glasgowshire?

Nothing squared.

Value of a few hundred acres of prime south coast real estate at the end of a motorway and both mainlines from London?

Lots and lots and sod the votes who won't vote for you anyway.
 
#9
While the government may feign horror at the idea of a closure, they be also taking careful note.

Value of some godfosaken part of Glasgowshire?

Nothing squared.

Value of a few hundred acres of prime south coast real estate at the end of a motorway and both mainlines from London?

Lots and lots and sod the votes who won't vote for you anyway.
BAE are truly multinational. How much will they care where the yard is as long as it has access to markets

However, will BAE yards in Scotland have access to markets? Especially EU ones?

I would hope that future governments will push to move work south.
 

Bouillabaisse

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
The primary risk to Scotstoun is in EU competition rules. Under current rules the Brtish govt can declare defence procurement of national interest and restrict any competition to British firms - which they currently do for naval shipbuilding. If Scotland becomes independent and part of the EU the British govt cannot award contracts for ships to be built there without competing it EU-wide. On the other hand, BAE will have done a careful assessment of the likelyhood of Scottish independence and are probably talking about Pompey.

As to the sell off of land - BAE's shipbuilding is now done in facilities in HM Naval base, so they can close but not sell the land. They've already offloaded their Pompey assets.
 
#11
BAE are truly multinational. How much will they care where the yard is as long as it has access to markets

However, will BAE yards in Scotland have access to markets? Especially EU ones?

I would hope that future governments will push to move work south.


Scotland? Regional aid.

The rather prosperous south? Not so much.
 
#12
Scotland? Regional aid.

The rather prosperous south? Not so much.
Scotland out on its own, unhampered by EU labour legislation, and deeply needy of employment or.......
 
#13
The primary risk to Scotstoun is in EU competition rules. Under current rules the Brtish govt can declare defence procurement of national interest and restrict any competition to British firms - which they currently do for naval shipbuilding. If Scotland becomes independent and part of the EU the British govt cannot award contracts for ships to be built there without competing it EU-wide. On the other hand, BAE will have done a careful assessment of the likelyhood of Scottish independence and are probably talking about Pompey.

As to the sell off of land - BAE's shipbuilding is now done in facilities in HM Naval base, so they can close but not sell the land. They've already offloaded their Pompey assets.
However, the EU would be under severe pressure to withhold membership of the EU. Scotland would be high and dry with regard to receiving naval orders unless Scottish workers accepted huge down grades in their rates of remuneration - that should happen but won.t because people can not see the writing on the wall. Ergo, I would suggest that BAE will start to move construction south.
 
#14
However, the EU would be under severe pressure to withhold membership of the EU. Scotland would be high and dry with regard to receiving naval orders unless Scottish workers accepted huge down grades in their rates of remuneration - that should happen but won.t because people can not see the writing on the wall. Ergo, I would suggest that BAE will start to move construction south.

Doubt it.

Nice new shiny Traf Gate - easy off motorway access to the top end of the yard, regeneration of Tipner, historic dockyard not fit for purpose and Gunwharf full and a rip roaring success, more land needed in Pompey for housing.

Pompey 2020

Gunwharf II shopping and residential in historic dockyard, industrial park and extension to commercial port at top end, whats left of Navy down the bottom end, Portsmouth University Nelson Campus to the left on former HMS Nelson site.
 
#17
Doubt it.

Nice new shiny Traf Gate - easy off motorway access to the top end of the yard, regeneration of Tipner, historic dockyard not fit for purpose and Gunwharf full and a rip roaring success, more land needed in Pompey for housing.

Pompey 2020

Gunwharf II shopping and residential in historic dockyard, industrial park and extension to commercial port at top end, whats left of Navy down the bottom end, Portsmouth University Nelson Campus to the left on former HMS Nelson site.
And the new locations of the newly refitted HMS Victory and the recently built Mary Rose museum?
On the other note we've just built a new ammunition bouy for the new carrier (singular usage)
HMS Temerare (slap in the middle of student drinking holes and gunwarf) and Excellent are surely more likely to be sold off first along with Excellent's offshoot on Horsea island.




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#18
How Temeraire keeps going is beyond me - why not just put an MT contract in place to drive people up to the pretty good facilities at what was DRYAD?
Issue with W/R is that its Grade 1 listed, so turning it into anything beyond its current role of repository for 1950s furniture and cupboards containing peoples filthy little secrets its unclear. It seems to vary from being a ghost town to full to the brim and relying on Vanguard block to accommodate people.
Excellent far less likely to go I'd have thought - if anything it would see further consolidation of the land.

I did hear someone fairly credible once suggest historic dockyard could be used for a relocation of HMS RALEIGH - but the issue there is dozens of old listed buildings. Frankly the sooner the RN loses 1 basin and the associated liability for ancient buildings the better.
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#19
Good point
How many BAE yards are still functioning?
Barrow
Firth of Forth
Glasgow...

Hmmm. To be in Europe or not?
Well they have yards in Norfolk, Virginia, also Australia and others meh they'll cope
 
#20
Hence my point about them being multi national and not just an English or British company now... they will follow the money but may still feel a need to be connected into Europe.
 

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