BAE and EADS to merge?

#2
Wonder if they'll change the name to BEADS or just plain BAD?
 
#3
The merged company would supply products including.....Challenger tanks, Tornado jet fighters
Really?
 
#4
Doubt it, regulators on both sides of the pond would hate to create a new monster A&D company
 
#6
Interesting, wonder if BAE and the MoD will still be getting chummy with Dassault for our Reaper replacement given EADS have a competing (and arguably more mature) product
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
#7
Some time ago in a thread far far away, it was noted, during a discussion on Scottish independence that a spokesman from MoD stated that warships have never been built abroad for the Royal Navy so none will be built in Scotland if independence was the way of things.

So, with the propose merger of BAe and a larger,foreign firm, what happens if the decision is made by the super company, in the intrests of shareholders of course, to close down UK facilities and build all future ships, tanks, planes on the Continent?
 
S

Screw_The_Nut

Guest
#8
Monster companies don't usually deliver a better product, check out Microsoft, Apple etc
 
#9
Could it be any worse for the army or the taxpayer than BAe?
 

rampant

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#10
Could it be any worse for the army or the taxpayer than BAe?
So let me get this straight BAe flog off their shares in Airbus, spend the next decade hoovering up the the World's Land Armaments companys, slip the US some spicy lube to get in the back door to the most piquant long term support contracts out there. And whilst she's bending over gasping from the surprise, slips back to the wife
nicking the girls credit cards, pin numbers and keys to the safe???
 
M

Mr_Tigger

Guest
#11
Is there anti-trust regulation for the UK defence sector? I was led to believe that there was not in the same way there is for consumer companies.

Whichever way we look at it there is effectively a monopoly already for most major MoD contracts. Our budget is not big enough for a competitive market to exist within the UK and the tax issue is going to mean the MoD will almost always favour a UK company. I have to really thought about it in any detail yet but if Big And Expensive want to compete for large orders in emerging markets they need to drastically ramp up production capacity. This might not be as terrible as it seems on the surface...might.

Having said that, large emerging markets only seem interested in technology buy in and domestic production on the whole.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#12
jeepers - if tornado, typhoon and the a400 are anything to go by then we are going to end up with an iddy biddy airforce of 12 planes which still cost more than the chinese entire defense budget.
 
M

Mr_Tigger

Guest
#13
jeepers - if tornado, typhoon and the a400 are anything to go by then we are going to end up with an iddy biddy airforce of 12 planes which still cost more than the chinese entire defense budget.
So what you are saying is; nothing is going to change?
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
wont this create a monopoly and fall fowl of all that EU bolocks?
 
#15
Stepping back and re-reading the Telegraph, I wonder just what benefit it would bring to the UK. EADS uses the UK for the manufacture of wings but what else?

Now take a step back in time to when
[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]1989[/TH]
[TD]
  • GEC Alsthom is formed from the merger of the power and transport activities of Compagnie Générale d'Electricité (CGE) and the UK General Electric Company plc (GEC). France's market was no longer sufficient, so the merger was to enable Alsthom to export into Europe.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I could be wrong but the only manufacturing jobs... in the looses sense of the word are in Preston. The company is now known as Alstom, where the country that brought you the train and train tilting technology has seen Alstom close its Washwood Heath plant, begiver of the Pendolino (made in Italy now) and where the mighty Preston workshops - they made the engines for diesels and electrics some of which were exported across the world, is now smidgeon of itself.

History repeating itself?
 
#16
Surely that must be referred to the Monopolies Commission.
Fat lot of good they are. I wrote to them once and they replied that I 'go to jail'.
 
#17
So let me get this straight BAe flog off their shares in Airbus, spend the next decade hoovering up the the World's Land Armaments companys, slip the US some spicy lube to get in the back door to the most piquant long term support contracts out there. And whilst she's bending over gasping from the surprise, slips back to the wife
nicking the girls credit cards, pin numbers and keys to the safe???
I like the cut of their jib :)
 
#19
BAE Systems in the UK I do not sense are in particularly good shape. On the maritime side the workload is being managed to keep the various yards ticking over but I get the impression the air business is facing quite a grim future. Typhoon lost out in the India MMRCA opportunity to Rafale and it has failed to seriously measure up in other export competitions against US and French competition. The JSF introduction, in service support to Typhoon, Hawk and Tornado and some Saudi and Indian orders are probably not going to keep their big facilities like Warton occupied for the long term. Radio silence on some of the UCAS programmes that were supposed to fill the breach suggest that these have been quietly pushed to the right in order to balance the defence budget.

I see inevitable 'rationalisation' within the combat air platform segment in Europe, as we have already seen with weapons (MBDA). As has been discussed elsewhere any 'Soverign' UK capability is probably not going to come out well, EADS know where their bread is buttered and it is in Spain, Germany and France and not on this island.

Of course, the overall result is a loss in the sort of highly skilled engineering jobs the UK needs to generate to get it out of a recession. But I'm sure we can make up the shortfall by generating more jobs in valuable services segments such as no win no fee ambulance chasers, pay day loan companies andcall centres.
 
#20
Trust me, it'll all end in tears.
 

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