Badges..

I posted this in another thread, but the thread's moved on without it being answered.

Can someone explain the rank/capbadge thing to me for Colonels & above?
For "regular" officers who have been promoted through the officer ranks in the traditional manner and then pass Staff College, they get the lion/crown capbadge, and gorget patches on promotion to Col.

Not sure about Docs & Dentists, they can reach Colonel in their own Corps. Do they change capbadge on promotion to Col? I know they get gorget patches.

Honorary Colonels (eg Prince William, Jools Holland, Duke of Westminster (in role as QOY Col)) retain regimental capbadge, not sure whether they get gorget patches. Lorraine Kelly is also a Col, but there are photos of her with the lion/crown capbadge on her Glengarry. I think that might be wrong, as she is Col of the ACF in Scotland. But then the ACF encompasses many regiments, so perhaps it is the right capbadge for her role in the ACF.

These new GSC Johnnies, presumably they'd wear the GSC capbadge on a plain blue Corps beret, and no gorget patches?

In WW1, the gorget patch indicated a staff qualification. Is it still an indication of some qualification, or do ALL Colonels and above wear them?

Here's DoW with his Colonel's hat on (as opposed to his General Officer hat).

128792023-gerald-grosvenor-the-duke-of-westminster-gettyimages.jpg


Here's Col Kelly with red tabs and Staff capbadge:

article-1192814-0554D26B000005DC-719_468x660.jpg


And Col Holland:

LNP-AFGHAN-CAMPAIGN-MEDAL-CEREMONY-MPA-13.jpg
 

Petardier

War Hero
1. Colonels and Brigadiers are not General Officers, therefore they do not have the same cap-badges and gorgets as General Officers,
2. Red gorgets for all staff officers ended decades ago, pre WW2 I think, there's a difference between general staff and General Staff. An officer becomes a member of the General Staff when promoted to Colonel.
3. Officers of whatever rank can wear the uniform and accoutrements (eg headgear, service dress and leather) of their regiment or corps although Mess Kit is the usual exception for General and General Staff Officers.
4. Persons appointed Colonel of Regiment (which is not a General Staff position) obviously wear the badges and uniform of their regiment on appropriate occasions.

Dress Regulations should reveal all.
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
D of W a very nice boke
Turned up at Chillwell to meet the QoY contingent and shake everyone's hands before deploying.
He didn't have to do it
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
D of W a very nice boke
Turned up at Chillwell to meet the QoY contingent and shake everyone's hands before deploying.
He didn't have to do it
The Duke very definitely saw the QOY as his regiment (not unfairly, I think he started as a trooper, eventually commanded the regiment and had strong links with the regiments the QOY founded/merged with - i.e. the Scottish & North Irish Yeomanry and the Mercian & Lancastrian). He encouraged QOY people to use his estate in Scotland for deer stalking. Two hundred years ago, we'd have almost certainly been called the Duke of Westminster's Horse or something.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Calling @Roadster280 - your thread certainly attracts 'em!

Did your original question get answered btw?
 
Calling @Roadster280 - your thread certainly attracts 'em!

Did your original question get answered btw?

Apparently.

And no, it did not.

Is Colonel Kelly correctly dressed as Colonel of the ACF in Scotland? Looks like she has the ACF shoulder titles, which are the only things distinguishing her uniform from a Regular Colonel. I suppose my question could be rephrased as “should she be wearing a Scottish capbadge and no gorget patches, or is her kit correct?” Then again, is that position not a “Colonel of the Regiment” position, rather than an Honorary Colonel position? My gut says the tailor got it wrong, but it could be me that’s wrong.

But Colonel Holland is wearing an RE ”bomb” officer’s capbadge in his beret as an Honorary Colonel.

Here’s another one, Dame Kelly Holmes, Honorary Colonel of the RAC Trg Regt. RAC Capbadge, no red tabs:

1621337952636.jpeg


Even Eddie “no LBD for you” Wessex (as a Royal), doesn’t wear the Lion on Crown when he gets the dressing up box out. BTW, did noone show him how to shape a hat? The CO behind him’s looks pretty natty, but Eddie’s not so much. Oh no, silly me :D

1621338140749.jpeg
 
This is a classic Army thing, and noting I minor'd in learning "Army" during Staff College, I'll ahve a stab at it.

Col and above are viewed as part of the General Staff. As such, they should adopt teh General Staff dress regs, including stable belt, capbadge, type of shirt, etc etc.

However, some members of the General Staff also have Regimental responsibilities. When discharging those responsibilities (and only then), they should dress as a "Late" member of that Regiment, with all the Regimental accouterments required. "Hon Col" and such like come under this banner.

Of course, this was a Saint Nick innovation, and as such, some members of the General Staff try to give the regulations a "bend" if they think they're not going to get caught.

RAMC/QARANC/RAVC and RADC wear different colour gorgets - maroon and green respectively.
 
This is a classic Army thing, and noting I minor'd in learning "Army" during Staff College, I'll ahve a stab at it.

Col and above are viewed as part of the General Staff. As such, they should adopt teh General Staff dress regs, including stable belt, capbadge, type of shirt, etc etc.

However, some members of the General Staff also have Regimental responsibilities. When discharging those responsibilities (and only then), they should dress as a "Late" member of that Regiment, with all the Regimental accouterments required. "Hon Col" and such like come under this banner.

Of course, this was a Saint Nick innovation, and as such, some members of the General Staff try to give the regulations a "bend" if they think they're not going to get caught.

RAMC/QARANC/RAVC and RADC wear different colour gorgets - maroon and green respectively.

Indeed, all understood.

So, is Col Lorraine correctly dressed as “Colonel of the ACF in Scotland”?
 

theoriginalphantom

MIA
Book Reviewer
A thread about badges and nobody has mentioned either of these two films yet?


the original
1621340400896.png


and the best

1621340432862.png
 
What are you planning? Drill?

In a manner of speaking. The verb form might be more appropriate :)

However, not sure we're on the same page here. See if you can find some photos of Lt Roberta Platt-Higgins. She's been doing her best to have them removed from the Internet, but they're out there. That should give some idea as to what's in my mind :D
 
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I must say, I rather like the red gorget placement in this photograph of the delicious Colonel Kelly.

lorraine-kelly-weight-loss-how-tv-presenter-dropped-two-dress-sizes-without-a-strict-diet~2.jpg
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
This is a classic Army thing, and noting I minor'd in learning "Army" during Staff College, I'll ahve a stab at it.

Col and above are viewed as part of the General Staff. As such, they should adopt teh General Staff dress regs, including stable belt, capbadge, type of shirt, etc etc.

However, some members of the General Staff also have Regimental responsibilities. When discharging those responsibilities (and only then), they should dress as a "Late" member of that Regiment, with all the Regimental accouterments required. "Hon Col" and such like come under this banner.

Of course, this was a Saint Nick innovation, and as such, some members of the General Staff try to give the regulations a "bend" if they think they're not going to get caught.

RAMC/QARANC/RAVC and RADC wear different colour gorgets - maroon and green respectively.
Not all Saint Nick. When you 'blue' you change your uniform and accoutrements from 'Regimental' to 'General Staff' - new staff capbadge, gorgets, buttons, hats, mess kit etc. Used to be the case that while you wore a GS capbadge you would also wear your 'late' regimental identifiers - TRF, stable belt, unique headgear (glengarry for example or maroon lid). That's all Nick put a stop to buy ordering GS TRFs and a GS stable belt thus trying to ensure some uniformity (good luck there). When you get your second star you become a General Officer as opposed to a Senior Officer and wear the appropriate general's cap badge etc.

The point about having Regimental responsibilities is correct and you wear Colonel's rank (even if you are not one - you could be a General, or a civvie) but with regimental accoutrements, not staff as you are not a staff officer in that appointment.

I can't see what the fuss is about really. The Navy just have a fetish for white shirts and dull black ties, and the RAF look like RAC patrolmen.
 

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