Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Random_Task, Jul 22, 2006.
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Get Army to knock young criminals into shape, says Reid.
Empty the prisons and bring back the press gang and be done with it!
Ahh, jollly good. Glad to see Prompt action.
And nice to see new LieBlair dusting off someone elses old policies and claiming its their idea too.
Plus we all know its p1ssing into the wind as the little darlings wont be in any fear of being filled in or taunted because it might upset them and they'll claim that their human rights have been infringed.
Just gas them. Effective and economical.
Has,nt this been tried before ? I had a friend who worked at HMYOI Dover (before it turned into a removal "center") & he remembered certain offenders undergoing a type of military training with a view to joining up for real. Did,nt they have civiys at colly aswell once. I personally think its all aload of hot air. I thought you were not allowed to dish out a beasting anymore ?? If you cant do that & have to train YO,s with one arm tied behind your back while walking on eggshells. Whats the point. These scrotes are not going to toe the line if they know any puinishment is going to be weak. 25+ years ago maybe this would of been a good idea. But now I think it just wont work & was only mentioned as a joe public crowd pleaser.
just out of interest, where are the instructors going to come for to thrash these young scum-bags into shape? or will they ship the crimms straight out to Iraq, Afgan, Iran?, Syria?, Lebanon? and anywhere else the smiling assissin decides to send us at the whim of the great satan? I only ask 'cos that's where we'll all be!!!!
They can then be burnt to provide power; very green as they'll pollute less than when alive.
It is not our job to sort these scrotes out. We are here to defend the nation, not moddycoddle a bunch of scummers.
Send them to a deserted island of the scottish coast with a selection of the finests beast masters we can find. (All after their 22) they could be new branch of the AGC. First the MPGS now the Ex-Military Beasting Group for Scummers. On the ferry to said island could be a sign. "No one can hear you scream back on the mainland, have a nice day". ONce on the island they have to adapt to the idea that they have no rights and may or may not get back to the mainland.
Those who graduate the course get to swim back to Great Britain (if him off of Little Britain can swim 22miles for charidy, these scummers can swim back to blighty for their crimes). A specialist section of the Royal Navy will be on hand to harpoon the slackers and bring them back to the island if they don't try hard enough on the swim.
I think we could see a tangible drop in crime.
did send some scrotes to colly in majors time the scroates complained and were sent back to normal jail :9
As a former Secretary of State for Defence he seems to have very little idea of how the Army actually operates does he!
I remember a telephone call to my office in the 1990s from an irate mother of one of my young soldiers who at that time was home on leave. She bemoaned the laziness of her son at home who would not rise until the afternoon, was constantly involved in fights and other behavior she regarded as reprehensible. She expressed her disappointment with the Army since she thought that by joining, it would 'make a man of him'.
My response was: "Madam, do not expect me to achieve in three years what you and a state education system have manifestly failed to produce in 18 of them"!!
Reid wants 'structure' for young men. I would have thought that this was what a penal regime in a young offenders institution was supposed to provide?
How is the Army supposed to provide 'structure' for a young man in such a relatively short time in a system which, if it was ever set up would be as beset with the same constricting rules as that which operates within the youth justice system.
The Army does very well in providing structure for it's own young offenders - it throws them out on their ears as Dross!
It is a non-starter - Reid is already engaged in a stand-up fight with the Treasury for the money to provide for an extra 8000 prison places to accommodate what will shortly be an inability of our prison system to accommodate what will very soon exceed it's operational capacity. If the Treasury is reluctant to release money on those grounds, it is most unlikely that they would release money for the kind of plan that Reid has in mind.
They cannot even find the money to properly run an underfunded and undermanned probation service which the government uses as a 'whipping boy' when the system breaks down as a consequence!
The Treasury would be more likely to say that it would have to come from within existing budgets which would involve a long battle between the Home Office and the MOD as to precisely who would fund it!
As for manpower, the Field Army simply does not have the manpower available for such an undertaking and if it is to be found at all, it would have to be on a contractual basis from a pool found among those with sufficient experience who have left it's ranks on discharge or upon retirement and they would not come cheaply!
Even if the finance, manpower and infrastructure were to be found what then?
What sort of structure could possibly be given to a young man sentenced to a three months community service order?
What possible difference would it make to his life being 'beasted' by a former NCO? Absolutely none at all in my opinion.
It is a typical Home Office solution which characterises the approach taken by all governments. They apply a punitive sticking plaster to cover the yawning chasm of social problems created by social policies the consequences of which they refuse to acknowledge responsibility for - the so called 'causes of crime'.
Another failed 'gimmick' no doubt generated by a popular TV so-called 'reality' show which has very probably generated a constituency post-bag for Reid with suggestions that it should be applied to the criminal justice system.
If he really want's to know what difference it makes then let us see the television cameras return to the families of those who took part in the very first series of 'bad lads' and see what difference a short dose of artificial televised military life it made to that lot? Do they have a job? Have they re-offended? Are they, in fact, the same sort of Dross they were at the time they took part in the show?
The Army is about the only organ of state that actually works properly and should be contrasted with just about every other centrally controlled department of state, like the Home Office which is little short of a 'disaster area'!
The Home Office is already seeking to divest itself of responsibility for asylum and immigration onto an 'independent' agency (ie, one it can blame when it does not work and one it can take political credit for when it does!), Is it now to divest itself of responsibility for youth justice by piling it on to an organisation that actually does work?
Make no mistake, even if it were only to be a very limited responsibility, you can bet that if it worked, the Army would find itself the beneficiaries of more and more areas of responsibilities within the youth justice system!
Is that what Reid really thinks the Army is or should become? Are we to become a militarised youth justice system?
I somehow do not think so!
The army is not the social or probation service. I can imagine it has a hard enough job training the 'normal' recruits these days with the attitudes they have now. It seems that you only have to look at someone these days and you infringe their 'human rights' so god knows how a platoon sergeant is supposed to lick them into shape. Its not the army that the criminals need but a complete removal of their 'rights' Rights that should be an earned priviledge, not a given thing.
Whats wrong with setting up boot camps with a few seasoned platoon sergeants and a removal of 'rights' Work them till they drop and beast them till they howl for their mums. While they are at these camps, they could clean and tidy their communities, chain gang style to earn their keep, plenty of elderly people cannot manage their gardens, send in the chain gang. Graffiti on walls? not a problem, have the chain gang scrub it until their fingers bleed. No pussyfooting around them, dont want to get up at 05.00 for inspection parade, not a problem with a hosepipe of cold water and a bit of a kicking, they would soon learn to get up to the bugle.
It wouldn't actually cost much to set up boot camps, simply turn existing prisons into them.
The army is not the answer to todays criminal youth, the army has enough to contend with with their own problems.
Perhaps, just perhaps, if we had more of a hand in how these social problems are dealt with, we may end up doing some more good for the country. It wouldn't need to affect those in operational soldiering. There are plenty of former instructors out there who could do a good job and would be willing to. You can't save everyone of course, but I reckon that most of these kids would derive benefit as opposed to 'benefits', from such a programme if one were available. The country would be better of for it. There's a lot of talent out there who could make it happen. We whinge enough on this site about the 'yoof'. Actions speak louder than words.
The army can turn aggressive youth into soldiers because it has the resources to supervise recruits for most of the day. It has five times the staff ratio to the state education system 5 Officers/ NCOs per platoon of recruits.
There are around 75k prisoners in the UK - about the same size as the Regular army. If the Army were to make any kind of impact on this problem it would need an NCO and Officer corps of tewice the size.
An ex officer magistrate friend of mine tells me that the Probation service is already full of ex WOs. There jusrt aren't enough of them.
Here is rhe National Audit Office report oin reducing reoffending.
Its probably a deliberate leak to make Reid look tough.
Then send him back to his crack-addled, car-thieving, hell-raising peer-group on the housing estate he came from having had his behaviour modified to such an extent that he is now a decent, caring, law-abiding, job-searching and hard-working individual?
Somehow I just cannot see that happening!
I can see his peer-group competing with each other to see if they are just as 'hard' as he is on the next intake!
Stanley Kubrick's film ' A Clockwork Orange' illustrates graphically what would happen if the state managed to remove an individual from his violent environment, and then modify his behaviour to such an extent that he was incapable of returning to his former way of life, and then return him to the environment from which he came.
It graphically illustrated that such an individual was a helpless and vulnerable target in a society that was both socially and physically violent!
This was one of the reasons why when you look beyond the violence of Kubrick's film, it was highly controversial -it drew attention to something that politicians actually do not want to address since it does not attract votes. They would rather focus on short-term punitive initiatives which will attract votes.
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