Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by Shaithis, Jan 18, 2009.

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  1. I have a quick question for the pay gurus out there.

    I am expected to get acting Cpl any day now, but i have been doing the Cpl's job (section commander, which is gapped for the CPl rank) since June 6th 2008.

    The question i have is, when i get the acting rank, will i get the backpay from when i took over the job, or will i lose out ?

    Also, do i have to do anything to action this, or is it done automatically ?

    Any help would be most welcome as i don't want to get my hopes up at a nice bit of backpay and not get a thing.

    p.s, just thought, my increment level went up last Oct as well, will they take that into consideration too ?
  2. Depends on wether you were granted acting rank or granted SUPA (substitution pay). SUPA is normally given if a post is gapped for a long period and that no one is filling the LSN of that gapped post. It takes the CO to authorise. You will only be paid from the date acting rank given, this would have been agreed by your Desk officer and your Officer.

    My bold - just because there is no one in work, doing the job physically, that LSN still may be filled.

    I.E The soldiers on the sick and not on SAM posting resgister.

    This may answer the question you may not get supa for back pay. its worthing asking if you can it but you will need to know if the LSN is gapped.

    edited to add* they may have agreed to back date your acting rank so ask questions !

    good luck!
  3. Well, the job was filled by a Cpl. But, when the det comd got promoted and posted the Cpl then picked up his substansive Sgt and moved to the det comd slot.

    The section comd slot was then classed as vacant. I took over the running of the section in June, nobody else came in for the slot, and the det comd checked with Glasgow, and found out that no-one had even put in to come here.

    I have not received any pay of higher rank stuff for the job at all, still on my LCpl wages.

    I have not been given SUPA, but am getting the acting rank for the post (which, Glasgow will then confirm as filled, by me) within the next few days / week.

    When i go in to see the 2i/c to receive my tapes, i will make sure i remind him i have done the job since last June with no pay...see if he takes the hint. :D
  4. Make sure it is not a rank/ranged post
  5. Sorry to sound daft..what does that mean ?

    As far as i am aware, the post is a Cpl slot only.
  6. need to check on the establishment that the lsn you are filling amongst other thing isnt rank ranged ie

    lsn 0819 Sect Cpl Field Tp Class 1 Cpl/LCpl
  7. I neednt worry if you have confirmed if you have been granted ACTING RANK. You will still get a pay rise.

    But You wouldnt have been granted acting rank if it were a rank range post.

    Bipolar I can see where you are coming, but on this but that is totally seperate issue.

    If the post was rank ranged he would have stayed a LCpl.

    I was doing regy accountatnts job - thinking Ill get staffy pay for this - did I feck it was rank ranged between Ssgt and Staffy. hence I Stayed on a Sgts wage.

    This should be a satifactory answer and example.
  8. Ahhh, i get you now. Nope, it isn't a rank range post. It is a Cpl only post. As you quite rightly said bitterandtwisted, that is the reason they are making me up to Cpl. So i can fill the slot, and then my LCpl rank becomes vacant, so one of the Ptes can become a LCpl.

    Thanks for the info though, it has helped to put some fears to bed now :D
  9. not really a seperate issue fella, he may be due promotion, its no longer dead mans shoes, if its rank ranged then a cpl.lcpl can do the job

    can u tell me the difference between a ssgt and a staffy please
  10. Bipolar fair one on the STAFFY /SSgt.

    I am not going to bother arguing with on the semantics of the scheme, filling dead man shoes. Acting Rank is normally given because he is filling the job of someone else in thier rank.

    I cant imagine giving someone acting rank if the job is rank ranged, its clearly ludicrous. Because they will just wait out and give promotion to substanstive if they competant.

    Acting rank is normally given owing the responsiblity that comes with the job role.

    Thats why in some jobs you get rank ranged jobs and the way that the army get also to save money.
  11. why do u want to argue?

    just stating in my exp there have been instances where people have been promoted in house to acting then to sub, ie our mt fuel accountant, rank range post, came off the board, no vacancy in the unit for him to move or get posted so he simply put the second tape on

    still u must be chuffed going to higher band at last?
  12. I understand your point but they are normally very exceptional cases, it defies logic as it wouldnt been a rank ranged post?. They normally done as sweetners under as career management issue, and if they think the soldier has clearly further potential or he has been sub at the rank lower for about 9 million years - like me.

    This isnt very common from my experience, but you are right, I am glad to getting higher pay band, ok its not dangerous but I earn my salt so to speak.
  13. where u @ m8 uk or germany?
  14. PMd you
  15. Eligibility Criteria

    03.0804. SUPA may be paid to an officer or other rank (OR) who is required temporarily to undertake the duties and responsibilities of a post established for an officer, OR, or civil servant of a rank/grade higher than his/her own which is vacant, subject to the exceptions at 03.0806. A table showing the equivalent Service and civilian ranks/grades for SUPA purposes is at Annex A.

    03.0805. SUPA may be authorised only where the Commanding Officer (CO) is unable to make alternative arrangements to cover temporary vacancies in established posts e.g. by redistribution or reorganisation of work. The authority for payment of SUPA to individuals on operational tours rests with the single Service Manning authorities.

    03.0806. SUPA will not be granted when:

    a. the normal incumbent or designated incumbent of a post is absent due to leave, except when it forms part of a continuous period of resettlement and/or terminal leave prior to the individual’s retirement/discharge date.

    b. the incumbent or designated incumbent of a post is absent on Post Operational Tour Leave (POTL) that does not directly follow the detachment/tour.

    03.0807. SUPA is not intended to supersede or to be used as an alternative to the granting of paid Acting Higher Rank (AHR) (including local acting), which should be considered ahead of the award of SUPA. Personnel holding paid AHR may substitute for an individual of a higher rank and be paid SUPA. Personnel holding local AHR (unpaid) may, provided the relevant criteria are being met (see 03.0812 and 03.0813), be paid SUPA but the calculation to determine the level of SUPA will be based on the individual’s substantive rank.

    03.0808. COs are to ensure that the ripple effect resulting in a chain of claims for SUPA arising from a single absence is, in all cases, avoided. There is no entitlement to SUPA for an individual required to undertake the duties of another person who is in receipt of SUPA, since the provisions at 03.0804 are not met. Where SUPA is admissible in respect of a civilian post, the officer or OR will be entitled to receive the rate of pay for the Service rank equivalent to the civilian post.

    03.0809. An individual who substitutes in a post which is two or more ranks higher than their own, will only be entitled to receive SUPA appropriate to that for the first higher rank. SUPA may be authorised to personnel already holding paid AHR .

    03.0810. When an officer or OR is required to fill a complemented post that is rank ranged, SUPA may only be authorised in respect of the lowest rank within that post’s rank range.

    03.0811. SUPA is not normally payable for posts established at a rank below OR3.

    Qualifying Period

    03.0812. To qualify for SUPA, the officer or OR must perform the duties of the higher rank for a minimum of 21 consecutive days. The period for which SUPA is payable is from the first day the substitute undertakes the duties and
    responsibilities of the higher rank up to and including the day preceding that on which an officer, OR or civilian of the appropriate rank is available to fill the established post. On completion of this qualifying period, SUPA may be authorised retrospectively from the first day on which the duties and responsibilities of the higher rank were assumed.

    To conclude, it doesn't matter whether the 'LSN' is filled or not. What matters is that you have been doing the work for that LSN while the person that normally does it is away. SUPA applies to vacancy of the post, not the LSN. Basically, if you haven't been getting SUPA from 06/06/08 I'd sure as hell be asking why not.