Back to back tours?

#1
Wondering wether anyone can help me on here? I' m wondering wether its possible to do back to back tours, and if anyones done them in the past could give me any advice on how to go about getting on them. Thanks.
 
#2
Yes it is possible. Ask your chain of command
 
#3
Very unlikely and highly dependent on the role.

Speak to SO3 Manning and Reserves in theatre.

msr
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
Wondering wether anyone can help me on here? I' m wondering wether its possible to do back to back tours, and if anyones done them in the past could give me any advice on how to go about getting on them. Thanks.
I know a fair number of people that have, but that seems to have become a thing of the past.
 
#5
best bet is to speak to the SO3 manning and reserve whist in theretre. although i think you'll do extension of tour rather than a back to back. if you have an easy job in bastion/kaf then treat yourself. however extending in an inf role job, living out of a pb. negative!
 
A

armadillo

Guest
#6
there was a fiddle going on with some clever TA types in Iraq, volunteered for a six month tour, made sure they took the earliest R and R package, got back volunteered to stay out in theatre, and when the next guys came out they asked for the late r and r package. No one figured it out till later. They qualified for tax free exemption. They made sure that they were out for three months clear before roulement volunteer to stay out and made sure they did not go back to uk for three months so they qualified for the six month period out of country. Quite a few did this and were found out, they were posted straight out of theatre and the rules were seriously tightened.

Because of this back to back working loophole lot of TA were turned down, I dont know if the rules carried over to Afghan but be prepared. I had a lot of TA in my troop and they were bloody good. Lost a few back to Chilwell because of a lot of fiddling going on.

edit listen to Peter Skellern above if inf role go home, you need the break,
 
#7
If you are deployed in theatre then you have sod all chance to do back to back / extend!! It will not happen as Glasgow will end of tour you on the orignal date. If not deployed but in a rear party type of role then its possible but it is hard work again to get Glasgow to accept the extension with a lot of hoop jumping etc.

Stilts
 
#8
See the MS Reserves Newsletter dated Sept 2010 on armynet.

Short answer: No, you can't.
 
S

stevieni22

Guest
#9
There is also an 18 month mandated timeline between tours, it comes down to nights out of bed that units are allowed.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
See the MS Reserves Newsletter dated Sept 2010 on armynet.

Short answer: No, you can't.

The newsletter mentioned by msr above says:

Mobilisation - Harmony Guidelines

1. There has been an increase in the number of reservists nominated for or who have requested to complete back-to-back operational tours in Afghanistan. Some wish to be mobilised again without taking the opportunity for a reasonable period of time to recover, readjust and re-engage with family, friends and civilian career/employment, before embarking on another dangerous, difficult and demanding operational tour. Mobilising a reservist for permanent service is not an alternative to full time employment or Full Time Reserve Service. Mobilisation of reservists is governed by legislation, specifically RFA 96, and decisions should not be taken lightly: although operational imperatives are clear, the interests of the reservist must also be fully considered.

2. For the Regular Army, ‘Harmony Guidelines’ provide direction to the CoC on commitments, tour lengths and tour intervals; these have recently been reinforced in a Briefing Note to Ministers (a). These guidelines should also be considered when seeking to mobilise reservists: the reservist must be guided and managed through any period of increased activity and where necessary limited to an acceptable level of commitment. If it is not in the best interest of the Regular Officer or Soldier to be exposed to the difficulties and demands of successive operational tours, then the same must apply in principle to the reservist also.

3. The difficulties of meeting operational commitments and managing the expectations of reservists are fully understood, but there must be a level of control. Not to do so could leave us open to legitimate criticism. It is recognised that RFA 96 (b) has been changed to permit further periods of permanent service, within the specified timelines, but that is not to say that there should not be an imposed period of recovery. When nominating a reservist for an operational commitment, you should take due account of any previous tour(s) and tour intervals. In broad terms, tour intervals should be a minimum of 12 -18 months.

Notes:

a. Briefing Note – The Army’s Rationale for Tour Lengths and Tour Intervals.
b. RFA 96 Sections 53A, 55A and 57A; agreement to alter limits on the period of permanent service.
My bold & underlined; that sentence refers to the newly amended sections to RFA 96 (listed in footnote b) which allowed a reservist to volunteer to mobilise again within the 3 year window from his/her last tour. The newsletter expresses the guidance (and that is all it is) that even though he/she can now volunteer again straight away, the reservist's CO has a duty of care to ensure that they are rested between tours and it would be a very rare CO who would ignore that guideline I'm guessing.

As for extending whilst mobilised. This happens to increasing degree (in the Infantry at least) because of the extra time needed to be spent with the Regular battalion in pre-deployment/mission specific training. Many of us extended our enlistments so as to finish our tours with our Regular comrades which added up to an extra couple of months. Note that any extension will note carry employment protection which is why most did not extend.

As for extending enough to do the next tour, in theory whilst the mechanism to do this still exists and has happened in the past, as mentioned above the current policy is to avoid this.

JSP 753 Edition 3:TRI-SERVICE REGULATIONS FOR THE MOBILISATION OF RESERVES

0219. In Permanent (Mobilised) Service. A reservist may consent to extend his
current service beyond the obligatory maximum period, for periods of up to six months
(if called out under Sections 54 or 56) or twelve months (for Section 52) at a time.
The single Service personnel branches are responsible for providing guidance on
maximum extension timelines and for reviewing all extension requests in order to
ensure individuals do not exceed a sensible level of exposure to operational
stresses (21).


(21) Current practice is that reservists serving in operational theatres should not generally exceed
a total of 12 months continuous service in theatre before undertaking POL and demobilisation.
 
#11
The newsletter mentioned by msr above says:

My bold & underlined; that sentence refers to the newly amended sections to RFA 96 (listed in footnote b) which allowed a reservist to volunteer to mobilise again within the 3 year window from his/her last tour. The newsletter expresses the guidance (and that is all it is) that even though he/she can now volunteer again straight away, the reservist's CO has a duty of care to ensure that they are rested between tours and it would be a very rare CO who would ignore that guideline I'm guessing.

As for extending whilst mobilised. This happens to increasing degree (in the Infantry at least) because of the extra time needed to be spent with the Regular battalion in pre-deployment/mission specific training. Many of us extended our enlistments so as to finish our tours with our Regular comrades which added up to an extra couple of months. Note that any extension will note carry employment protection which is why most did not extend.

As for extending enough to do the next tour, in theory whilst the mechanism to do this still exists and has happened in the past, as mentioned above the current policy is to avoid this.

JSP 753 Edition 3:TRI-SERVICE REGULATIONS FOR THE MOBILISATION OF RESERVES
Interested in the section that I've marked in bold above, I'd like to know more if you don't mind detailing. I've not mobilised before but will be. PM me if neccessary.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
Interested in the section that I've marked in bold above, I'd like to know more if you don't mind detailing. I've not mobilised before but will be. PM me if neccessary.
SOF,

When you are mobilised under the current provision, it is for a period of no more than 12 months. This 12 months has got to include your pre-deployment or Mission Specific Training (MST) with your Regular unit, your Post-Operational Tour Leave (POTL), your annual leave accumulated whilst serving with the Regs, as well as the tour itself.

Both the POTL and Annual Leave are fixed rate* (see below). That leaves the MST which can run to around 3-4 months or the tour itself which for the unit is about 6-7months. Traditionally, and this may still work with support units, the augmentees were mobilised only early enough into the MST as to allow the whole tour to be completed and enough time for the POTL and Annual Leave. However it has been recognised that intense and sustained close combat experienced by most Infantryman in Afghanistan requires as much pre-deployment training in mission specific skills, weapons (especially heavy weapons) training and physical fitness as is possible. Generally speaking, this probably applies even more so to mobilised reservists and recent intakes from CIC due to the inevitable skills gap.

The received wisdom therefore is to mobilise early so as to include the TA augmentees in all the MST and have them leave theatre early. When this happened to us, we were asked if wanted to volunteer to extend and only a few of us actually did. I think the majority were not in a position to, as the voluntary extension would have have lost them their civilian-job protection. By the 5 month point we started getting in Battlefield Casualty Replacements (BCRs), Crow Bags who had just graduated depot and been posted in as well as lads in Battalion who had just turned 18 and joined us in theatre so numbers wise I think it evened out.



* 2½ days leave for each month of permanent service with the allowance for
part months calculated proportionately. After final calculation, any fractions
will be rounded up to nearest full day.

Any leave (other than R & R) taken during permanent service is to be
deducted from the accrued annual entitlement.

Any Bank Holidays falling during post tour leave are to be added to the overall
entitlement.

R & R leave not taken during a period of permanent service will be lost and
cannot be added to post tour leave.

Personnel deployed overseas on operational service are entitled to 1 day Post Operational Tour Leave (POTL) for every 9 days deployed. The final eligibility total is rounded up to the nearest whole number. There is a ceiling of 40 days POTL.
 
#15
As for extending whilst mobilised. This happens to increasing degree (in the Infantry at least) because of the extra time needed to be spent with the Regular battalion in pre-deployment/mission specific training. Many of us extended our enlistments so as to finish our tours with our Regular comrades which added up to an extra couple of months. Note that any extension will note carry employment protection which is why most did not extend.
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that any extension was "mandatory" and still carried all the necessary protections, though I stand to be corrected. At least that's what I recall from when I was extended. I stand to be corrected.

Edited to add - having had a very brief look through the Reserve Forces (Safeguard of Employment) Act 1985 I can't see anything which negates its provisions if you are extended.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#16
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that any extension was "mandatory" and still carried all the necessary protections, though I stand to be corrected. At least that's what I recall from when I was extended. I stand to be corrected.
DBL,

I'll double-check that mate, but am pretty sure that's how it ran. We signed a voluntary extension of enlistment rather having our call-out compulsorily extended so would be pretty surprised if employment protection continued. Will get back to you as soon as I find it.
 
#17
DBL,

I'll double-check that mate, but am pretty sure that's how it ran. We signed a voluntary extension of enlistment rather having our call-out compulsorily extended so would be pretty surprised if employment protection continued. Will get back to you as soon as I find it.
Wasn't that 'voluntary' for you? Things may have changed in the last few months but my employer did not have a return date for me so they would not have had any idea whether I'd extended or not. The Reserve Forces (Safeguard of Employment) Act 1985 just states the notice you have to provide for returning to your employer.

I'd be interested to hear what you find. Too often advice from units can be inaccurate, though I found the same from even the supposed experts in MoD!
 
B

bokkatankie

Guest
#18
Double backing is like saying you have no life or just want to coin the system. Get a life and stop trying to live it via operational tours, at the end no one will like you any more than they did and most will wonder why.
 

RP578

LE
Book Reviewer
#19
Wasn't that 'voluntary' for you? Things may have changed in the last few months but my employer did not have a return date for me so they would not have had any idea whether I'd extended or not. The Reserve Forces (Safeguard of Employment) Act 1985 just states the notice you have to provide for returning to your employer.

I'd be interested to hear what you find. Too often advice from units can be inaccurate, though I found the same from even the supposed experts in MoD!
My bold - sorry, not too sure what you're getting at. Yes, I did volunteer to extend. All of us were asked and only a few did, so there was absolutely no compulsion or coercion. I guess it boils down to the fact that your employer is told that you are being mobilised for 12 months and can plan to cover your absence for that year. If you are extended beyond that through compulsion (and I'm pretty sure that would take the requisite nod from Parliament, but again will chase that up) then yes, your are protected as it was through no fault (in theory) of your own. If you voluntarily extend however, I think you relinquished your employer from any obligation. Like I said, I will bury my nose in RFA 80 & 96 and will see what I find.

Double backing is like saying you have no life or just want to coin the system. Get a life and stop trying to live it via operational tours, at the end no one will like you any more than they did and most will wonder why.
Maybe some people feel more alive when there in those situations than they ever would clocking-in in Civvy St. or stagging on in barracks? I know three blokes (2 Regs, 1 TA) who fit that to a tee. They wanted nothing more than to get out on patrol and get contacted, I mean it genuinely gave them kicks.

Every day I see people on the Tube and buses, on their way to work who look like they're dead from the neck up. Who's more in need of a life, the three adrenaline junkies or the flock of wage-slaves?
 
B

bokkatankie

Guest
#20
Every day I see people on the Tube and buses, on their way to work who look like they're dead from the neck up. Who's more in need of a life, the three adrenaline junkies or the flock of wage-slaves?
Um, jump out of planes at weekends, or base jump of a bridge; war junkies are not what anybody wants.
 

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