Back Door route to LE

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by barbs, Mar 29, 2006.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. Can someone please explain to me how the LE process works for the TA?

    I have been led to understand that a majority of TA LEs (the newest LEs) are now ex-Reg SNCOs (as in completed 22 years as Reg, failed to gain a commission and then joined the TA).

    Does this not strike anyone as being counter-productive:

    1. Impression of not good enough for Reg LE but good enough for TA LE;
    2. TA SNCOs who have committed to the TA for a long time are left short by the comparison;
    3. Overall standard of LEs across the Army is lowered by a lowering of standards.

    Points for discussion, not just for abuse.
  2. I've heard only WO2 and above can apply for LE, I've not heard of it being different for ex-regulars?
  3. I’ve seen a post on here somewhere describing how anyone in the TA of Cpl or above who is too old for a DE commission can apply for a LE.

    Don’t ask me to find the link :?
  4. All the LEs in my unit are from the ranks of the unit. Not one is an ex reg, so I guess as ever, depends on where you are.
  5. Its all different in the TA, practically all Officers (apart from those commissioned in the last few years) are LE to some extent, thats one of the reasons why TA officers lack certain leadership traits. Discuss!
  6. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    Very broad brush sweeping there, SPS! Agree that most officers in the TA may have had some non-commissioned service, but very few are true LE.
  7. I don't normally get into the TA vs Regular thing I personally think the TA provide a cracking service

    But come on a regular SNCO with 22 years full time experience compared to a TA SNCO doing his minimum requirement of 27 days a year

    Your telling me he is as good as a regular SNCO

    Regular soldier after 22 years roughly completes 8030 days in the armed forces

    TA soldier after 22 years doing 27 days a year completes roughly 594 days
    For him to gain the same level of experience we are talking roughly 8030 / 27 =297.4 so therefore it would take a TA soldier to complete approx 297 years of minimum TA service to gain the same level of experience of a regular soldier over 22 Years.

    If you think I am wrong you do the math :wink:
  8. msr

    msr LE


    I believe that the issue is whether they would make good LE officers, not how much time they have put in.

    The twin track approach to solving the TA Officer crisis seems to revolve around extending the run out age to 60 and plugging the gaps with LE officers. Neither of which seems to be helping the TA recruit DE officers.

  9. Surely an ex regular SNCO with 22 years full time experience, must have some leadership qualities.Why would he not make a good TA LE Officer. Does NCO or SNCO leadership within the regulars count fo nothing when joining the TA.
  10. msr

    msr LE

    Of course it counts, but what about the TA SNCO? Where is his/her career path if all the slots go to ex-regs (which I don't believe they do)?

    And if they weren't good enough for a regular LE commission, why do they expect to have one from the TA?

  11. Its a hobby to him/her not a full time job, they don't put HM forces on application forms they put there current civilian employment.
    There career path is the current employment field that they are in within the civililian sector.
  12. Commissioning route is fairly simple.

    As a WO2 or WO1 you can apply for Type A Commission. Your Confidential Reports have to recommend you for promotion, and from there you have an interview with the Brigadier. Pass that, and the paperwork process starts. You'll commission as a 2Lt, probationery period still applies, but you should expect to be a Captain fairly shortly thereafter, entirely dependent upon vacancies, courses, etc.

    The recent change is that there's an LE Commissioning Course either happening now, or imminent.

    As a Type A, you'll compete with your peers in much the same way officers do now.

    There's also the option of going for a QM Commission. Same process, but you won't get a command appointment, but are able to stay in until 55. There's a section in TA Regs all about this little known commission. I sem to recall the CO can give you a QM Commission all on his own, but with generally only one QM(T), not many spots so limited in scope.

    All others who seek to commission from Staff Sergeant and below have to go through the normal commissioning process. They're effectively DETAPOs. TAMB, pre-Sandhurst weekends, and the Commissioning Course required.

    The numbers who commission as LE will vary depending on the CO's policy, and how many vacancies he has to fill. He might wish to have Direct Entry officers, but if he can't, that's where the policy might meet the reality.

    There's no guarantee that a WO2 will commission either - I've known a couple of people who didn't make it past the Brigadier.

    As for barbs comment about "not good enough", you have to bear in mind that some Corps only Commission from WO1 - RLC springs to mind here. So potentially in an RLC unit, you could have a Regular WO2 (who wasn't allowed to commission as a Regular) who retires after 22 years, wants to keep the green connection so joins the TA as perhaps RQMS, or fills a SSM spot, does that for three/four years, and is then invited to commission as an LE.

    He was probably good enough as a Regular WO2 to get a commission, but the rules weren't able to accommodate him (which I think for the RLC is a mistake - but that's another topic).
  13. msr

    msr LE

    Join the TA, work hard, rise up the ranks, then watch your chance of an LE commmission go to an ex-reg who wasn't good enough for them.

    Not a great recruiting slogan, I would suggest.

  14. the more people talk about experience and time spent in the job, the more that I am convinced that people (particularly soldiers, NCOs and a great number of TA Officers) have completely missed the point of officers. We recruit soldiers because we think they can do the job of a private, the fact that they could one day be an RSM is irrellevant. We recruit soldiers as privates and if we want them to lead or manage we train them and structure their careers with experience. Therefore if a SNCO has to make a descision he has precedent in that he has probably seen the situation before, SNCO and LEs are therefore bound by experience and prior practice. Officers are not recruited for what they know but for how they think and what they can learn, but more importantly for their confidence that they can resolve a situation where they don't know exactly what to do. This is why LEs shouldn't get command appointments other than OC HQ/ support tp/ OC blanket stacking...that sort of thing. The TA is finally coming round to the fact that LEs are not the answer to a cronic shortage of DEs.